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The FMC thread

Discussion in 'General Speedcubing Discussion' started by blah, Jul 12, 2009.

  1. This thread is where I got started with FMC. It goes over insertions (both commutators and single moves) as well as many other helpful things. Also the wiki page for FMC techniques you may useful as well.

    Hope they help :)
     
  2. Thanks Julian!! But I still needing an example solve, may be premade, with an inserted move example...
    -------------------------------
    Also, I want to share my optimal PLLs with U, U', U2, or no AUF (A V PLL and a U at the end will have one extra move, I generated algs that don't have that extra move if its possible to delete the move)

    Full list:

    Without AUF:

    H: R L U2 L' R' F' B' U2 B F (10 HTM)
    Z: R L' U2 D2 R L' D R2 L2 U' F2 B2 (12 HTM)
    U clockwise: F2 U L R' F2 R L' U F2 (9 HTM)
    U counterclockwise: F2 U' L R' F2 R L' U' F2 (9 HTM)
    J left: U2 r' U' r U2 l' U R' U' l2 (10 HTM)
    J right: U2 l U l' U2 r U' L U r2 (10 HTM)
    A clockwise: R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 (9 HTM)
    A counterclockwise: R2 D2 R U R' D2 R U' R (9 HTM)
    Na: F2 U2 R2 U F2 U2 F2 R2 U R2 U2 R2 F2 U (14 HTM)
    Nb: F2 U2 L2 U' F2 U2 F2 L2 U' L2 U2 L2 F2 U' (14 HTM)
    Y: R2 U' R2 F R' f' R' U R F' U' B U (13 HTM)
    E: R2 U R2 U' F2 U R2 B2 D' L2 D B2 U' R2 (14 HTM)
    F: R L' B2 L' D R' B2 L U' R2 L F2 R2 U (14 HTM)
    T: R2 U R2 D' F2 L2 U' L2 D F2 U' (11 HTM)
    V: R' U R' U' B' R' B2 U' B' U B' R B R (14 HTM)
    Ra: R U2 R' U2 l U' l' U' R U l U R2 F (14 HTM)
    Rb: R' U2 R U2 l' U l U R' U' R' F' R2 U' (14 HTM)
    Ga: R2 u R' U R' U' R u' R2 F' U F (12 HTM)
    Gb: R' U' R y R2 u R' U R U' R u' R2 (12 HTM)
    Gc: L2 u' L U' L U L' u L2 F U' F' (12 HTM)
    Gd: L U L' y' L2 u' L U' L' U L' u L2 (12 HTM)


    With U' AUF:

    L2 B2 F2 R2 D' L2 B2 F2 R2 (9f*) //H
    D2 L' R F D2 U2 F' D2 U2 F L R' (12f*) //Z
    F2 U' L R' F2 L' R U' F2 U' (10f*) //U counterclockwise
    F2 U L R' F2 L' R U F2 U' (10f*) //U clockwise
    L2 D' B2 D B2 U' B2 U B2 L2 (10f*) //J left
    B U' F U2 B' U B U2 B' F' (10f*) //J right
    R2 B2 R F R' B2 R F' R U' (10f*) //A counterclockwise
    R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2 U' (10f*) //A clockwise
    R2 B2 U2 B2 U' B2 R2 U2 R2 U' B2 U2 R2 (13f*) //Na
    F2 L2 U2 L2 U L2 F2 U2 F2 U L2 U2 F2 (13f*) //Nb
    F2 U F2 U F2 U2 R B R' F2 R B' R' (13f*) //Y
    R2 U B2 D' L2 D B2 R2 U' F2 U R2 U' R2 U' (15f*) //E
    R2 B2 L R2 U' L F2 R' D L' F2 L' R (13f*) //F
    R2 D' F2 U F2 R2 D B2 U' B2 (10f*) //T
    B2 D' F2 U2 F2 R2 D' F2 U F2 D2 R2 U' B2 (14f*) //V
    R U2 R' U B L' B' R B L B' U R' (13f*) //Ra
    L U' B U L2 D2 R F R' D2 L U' B' (13f*) //Rb
    R2 F2 D B2 D' B2 U B2 U' B2 F2 R2 U' (13f*) //Ga
    B2 L2 R2 U L2 D' B2 D B2 U' R2 B2 U' (13f*) //Gb
    L2 F2 D' B2 D B2 U' B2 U B2 F2 L2 U' (13f*) //Gc
    B2 L2 R2 U' R2 D B2 D' B2 U L2 B2 U' (13f*) //Gd

    With U AUF:

    L2 B2 F2 R2 D L2 B2 F2 R2 (9f*) //H
    F' L F L' R' F L R' F L' F' R2 (12f*) //Z
    F2 U' L R' F2 L' R U' F2 U (10f*) //U counterclockwise
    F2 U L R' F2 L' R U F2 U (10f*) //U clockwise
    B' U F' U2 B U' B' U2 B F (10f*) //J left
    L R U2 R' U' R U2 L' U R' (10f*) //J right
    R2 B2 R F R' B2 R F' R U (10f*) //A clockwise
    R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2 U (10f*) //A counterclockwise
    F2 R2 U2 R2 U' R2 F2 U2 F2 U' R2 U2 F2 (13f*) //Na
    R2 F2 U2 F2 U F2 R2 U2 R2 U F2 U2 R2 (13f*) //Nb
    R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 F' L' F R2 F' L F (13f*) //Y
    F2 U L2 U2 L2 F2 U L2 U L2 U2 F2 U' F2 U' (15f*) //E
    R2 F2 L' R2 U L' B2 R D' L B2 L R' (13f*) //F
    R2 D B2 U' B2 R2 D' F2 U F2 (10f*) //T
    R2 U B2 D2 F2 L2 D F2 D B2 U2 R2 U' R2 (14f*) //V
    F U' R B' R' F' R B R' U' F U2 F' (13f*) //Ra
    R' U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2 (13f*) //Rb
    R2 F2 D B2 D' B2 U B2 U' B2 F2 R2 U (13f*) //Ga
    B2 L2 R2 U L2 D' B2 D B2 U' R2 B2 U (13f*) //Gb
    L2 F2 D' B2 D B2 U' B2 U B2 F2 L2 U (13f*) //Gc
    B2 L2 R2 U' R2 D B2 D' B2 U L2 B2 U (13f*) //Gd

    With U2 AUF:

    L2 B2 F2 R2 D' L2 B2 F2 R2 U' (10f*) //H
    L2 R2 D L2 R2 U L2 B2 L2 R2 F2 R2 (12f*) //Z
    F2 U' L R' F2 L' R U' F2 U2 (10f*) //U counterclockwise
    F2 U L R' F2 L' R U F2 U2 (10f*) //U clockwise
    L2 D' B2 D B2 U' B2 U B2 L2 U' (11f*) //J left
    B2 L2 U L2 D' B2 D B2 U' B2 U' (11f*) //J right
    R2 B2 R F R' B2 R F' R U2 (10f*) //A counterclockwise
    R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2 U2 (10f*) //A clockwise
    R2 B2 U2 B2 U' B2 R2 U2 R2 U' B2 U2 R2 U' (14f*) //Na
    F2 R' F2 U2 R2 U2 R' F2 R2 U2 R' U2 F2 R2 (14f*) //Nb
    F2 U F2 U F2 U2 R B R' F2 R B' R' U' (14f*) //Y
    F2 U L2 U2 L2 F2 U L2 U L2 U2 F2 U' F2 (14f*) //E
    B' F R' B2 D2 B2 F' R F' U2 B L' F (13f*) //F
    R2 D' F2 U F2 R2 D B2 U' B2 U' (11f*) //T
    R U R2 F R2 U' R' F2 L' U L F2 U2 F' (14f*) //V
    L' U' L U2 R B2 L D L D' L2 B2 R' (13f*) //Ra
    L' B2 R2 D' R D R B2 L U2 R U' R' (13f*) //Rb
    F2 D B2 D L2 B D F' D2 B D' F' (12f*) //Ga
    L D R' D2 L D' R' B2 D' R2 D' L2 (12f*) //Gb
    F2 D' B2 D' R2 B' D' F D2 B' D F (12f*) //Gc
    R' D' L D2 R' D L B2 D L2 D R2 (12f*) //Gd
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
  3. mycube

    mycube Member

    1,019
    33
    Sep 3, 2011
    Regensburg, Germany
    WCA:
    2011FRES01
    Here are my FMC-Results from Euros, 2nd place, first official mean and official single pb :)

    Scramble: F L2 D2 B’ L2 B U2 L2 B F2 U’ L’ D U2 F’ U’ R F2 U’ R’
    Premove: F’
    L’ U2 B2 U’ - 2x2x2 [4/4]
    F R2 D2 R’ D’ R’ D2 F’ D F’ - F2L-1 [10/14]
    D2 R2 D’ R’ F’ R2 F - Finish [7-1/20] Premove cancels with the last Move

    L4C:
    L’ U2 B2 . U’ F R2 D2 R’ D’ R’ D2 F’ D F’ D2 R2 D’ R’ F’ R2
    . = F D F’ U’ : F D’ F’ U [8-4/24]
    : = U’ L2 U R U’ L2 U R’ [8-1/31] - bad luck with the insertion compared to the first one :(

    L’ U2 B2 F D F’ U2 L2 U R U’ L2 U R’ F D’ R2 D2 R’ D’ R’ D2 F’ D F’ D2 R2 D’ R’ F’ R2 - 31 Moves

    Scramble: L2 U2 B2 L2 F’ U2 L2 D2 L2 B’ F D’ R D2 F’ L’ F’ L2 D F’ L
    inverser: L’ F D’ L2 F L F D2 R’ D F’ B L2 D2 L2 U2 F L2 B2 U2 L2

    Pre: F'
    F U2 L B’ D2
    L2 F2 U’ F2
    R B R’ U B’ U B U

    L3C:
    . F U2 L B’ D2 L2 F2 U’ F2 R B R’ U B’ U B U F'
    . = U B U’ F2 U B’ U’ F2 [8-1/25] - again, bad luck with insertions :( I really hoped for a better results, but no..

    U B U’ F2 U B’ U’ F' U2 L B’ D2 L2 F2 U’ F2 R B R’ U B’ U B U F’ - 25 Moves

    Scramble: F R2 B’ U2 F2 R’ F’ U2 B2 L’ D’ L’ U2 B’ U’ R'
    inverser: R U B U2 L D L B2 U2 F R F2 U2 B R2 F’

    R’ D’ F’ L’ B2 D F’ R’ F’ U F R’ B’ R2 B R’
    5 Corners, 2 two of them twisted in 16

    R’ D’ F’ L’ B2 D F’ - 2x2x2 + 1x2x2 [7/7]
    R’ F’ U F - XX-Cross [4/11]
    R’ B’ R2 B R’ - Finish [5/16]

    L5C, ein pure twist:
    R’ D’ F’ L’ : B2 D F’ R’ . F’ U F R’ B’ R2 B _ R’
    . = R’ B2 R F’ R’ B2 R F [8-3/21] - solves the l3c, not 2 twisted remain
    : = D F’ D’ B2 D F D’ B2 [8-6/23]
    _ = B’ D B U’ B’ D’ B U [8-2/29]

    R’ D’ F’ L’ D F’ D’ B2 D R2 B2 R F’ R’ B2 R U F R’ B’ R2 D B U’ B’ D’ B U R’ - 29 Moves
     
  4. Pyjam

    Pyjam Premium Member

    1,127
    103
    Oct 8, 2010
    La Baule, France
    I haven't practiced for a while. What happened to the "FMC Cube Companion" ? Has it moved ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  5. ch_ts

    ch_ts Member

    195
    19
    Apr 25, 2008
    Well, it used to be at Per's FMC site (mustcube.net) but that's been down for at least a half year, currently we have David Adams's FMC site here. The FMC cube companion has more or less been replaced by alg.cubing.net
     
  6. Pyjam

    Pyjam Premium Member

    1,127
    103
    Oct 8, 2010
    La Baule, France
  7. porkynator

    porkynator Member

    1,193
    315
    Oct 27, 2010
    Belluno, Italy
    WCA:
    2011TRON02
    YouTube:
    PorkyDays
    My site has moved to http://fmcsolves.cubing.net/
    I renew my invite to good FMCers to post some solves on my blog.
    Contact me, I'll give you an account and a few guidelines for posting solves :)

    EDIT: to avoid double-posting, here is another CF solution: alg.cubing.net. 35 HTM isn't great, but I thought I could share anyway :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
  8. Tim Major

    Tim Major Platinum Member

    5,376
    14
    Aug 26, 2009
    Melbourne, Australia
    WCA:
    2010MAJO01
    My 3rd place solution at Ausnats

    L2 R2 F' R2 F D2 R2 D2 U2 B2 D B D U R2 D2 L' D B D'

    x' y' U R2 U' D L2 R2 D2 U' L F' L' U R' F R U F R' F' R U L U L2 B R' D R U2 R' D' R U2 L B' (35)


    8 move insertion with no cancels is before the last 2 moves
    U L U L2 B * L B'
    Solution without insertion;
    x' y' U R2 U' D L2 R2 D2 U' L F' L' U R' F R U F R' F' R U L U L2 B L B' (27)

    I spent about 40 minutes without touching a pen, trying to blockbuild to PLL skip or something, probably did 80+ with no PLL skip or 3 corner type thing. Found a 5 move 2x2 that I messed around with a lot.

    Realised I had nothing written down with 20 mins left, found this 27 move CFOPy skeleton and found an insertion with no cancels with about a minute and wrote it down quickly. I realise rotations are bad, I should've done a proper hour-long solution trying inverse scramble and writing no rotations but wasted too much time.

    Any insertions I missed? This tied my comp PB so any cancelations would've been nice.
     
  9. vcuber13

    vcuber13 Member

    2,478
    9
    Oct 14, 2009
    Near Toronto
    WCA:
    2009METH01
    YouTube:
    simpsons36109
    If you don't know about this, its very useful. It gives that the shortest solution with your skeleton is 35.
     
  10. vcuber13

    vcuber13 Member

    2,478
    9
    Oct 14, 2009
    Near Toronto
    WCA:
    2009METH01
    YouTube:
    simpsons36109
    I would continue your 2x2x2 as:
    Premove: B2 D2
    B2 D R D2
    R' B'
    11+2 moves to F2L-1

    For your skeleton so far, I would likely switch and do
    R2 U R2 U' R2 B' R' B R U R' U' which leaves 2x2 corners:(
     
  11. wontolla

    wontolla Member

    300
    2
    Oct 21, 2010
    WCA:
    2011GRAJ01
    YouTube:
    wontollagdl
    If this is the scramble of the CURRENT weekly competition, you shouldn't be asking for help, isn't it? ;)
     
  12. Jimmy Liu

    Jimmy Liu Member

    149
    0
    Jul 7, 2014
    WCA:
    2011LIUR02
    Finding this for over an hour:p, as the result is 32 moves.

    apply on normal: B L D (2x2x1 block)
    switch to inverse: D' L' B' (In. SC) F' L2 (2x2x2 block)
    U R (another block)
    R U R' (CE pair)
    B2 D' R' D R2 B R' (insert blocks)
    F R' F' R (two layers)
    R B2 L' B' L B' R' (OLL)
    R B' R F2 R' B R F2 R2 (PLL)
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
  13. qaz

    qaz Member

    573
    14
    Jul 29, 2013
    WCA:
    2013BROW04
    scramble: R2 F2 R D' U2 L2 R' F L R2 U2 L D' U2 F L2 D' B2 L D' L2 D U' R D2

    D2 R U B L' D' L' B
    R U2 R2 F2
    U' F R2 F' U R
    on inverse:
    U2 F' U' F
    F R U R' U' F' U2

    skeleton: D2 * R U B L' D' L' B R U2 R2 F2 U' F R2 F' U R U2 F U R U' R' F2 U F U2 (28)
    * D2 U2 L' D L D2 U2 R' D' R
    solution: U2 L' D L D2 U2 R' D' R2 U B L' D' L' B R U2 R2 F2 U' F R2 F' U R U2 F U R U' R' F2 U F U2 (35)

    when i put my skeleton into IF, it gives this (saying 36 moves is optimal for my skeleton):
    R2 F2 R D' U2 L2 R' F L R2 U2 L D' U2 F L2 D' B2 L D' L2 D U' R D2
    Your Skeleton
    D2 R U B L' D' L' B R U2 R2 F2 U' F R2 F' U R U2 F U R U' R' F2 U F U2

    1 edge 3-cycle(s) insertion(s) needed

    D2 R U B L' D' L' B R U2 R2 F2 U' F R2 F' U R U2 F U [@1] R U' R' F2 U F U2
    Insert at @1: D2 R2 B R2 D2 L2 F L2
    Fewest moves: 36. 0 moves cancelled
    The final solution: D2 R U B L' D' L' B R U2 R2 F2 U' F R2 F' U R U2 F U D2 R2 B R2 D2 L2 F L2 R U' R' F2 U F U2

    etc.

    why wasn't IF able to find the same 35-move solution?
     
  14. Well, that means that IF doesn't always give optimal results... Or that you are insertion god

    -----------

    The commutator [F L' D2 L F, U2] can be adapted (changing the first F move to F2 or performing the rotations "y2 z" and then change the first F to F2) to solve this cases:
    [CUBE]case=U R2 U' B R2 D' R2 D B2 U' B U R2&view=plan[/CUBE]
    [CUBE]case=F U' R2 U R2 U F U' F2 D R2 D' R2&view=plan[/CUBE]

    But can it be adapted to solve this:
    [CUBE]case=U' B U' F U2 B2 D' R2 U D F' U' B&view=plan[/CUBE]
    ?
     
  15. TDM

    TDM Super Moderator Staff Member

    7,007
    293
    Mar 7, 2013
    Oxfordshire, UK
    WCA:
    2013MEND03
    YouTube:
    TDM028
    I don't think so, because that alg twists to corners, not three. You'll have to find a completely different alg to solve that case.
     
  16. What alg would you use if it were impossible to avoid that case?
     
  17. TDM

    TDM Super Moderator Staff Member

    7,007
    293
    Mar 7, 2013
    Oxfordshire, UK
    WCA:
    2013MEND03
    YouTube:
    TDM028
    I don't actually do FMC, but I've heard twisted corners are very bad cases to get and it's best to avoid them. I would do sune+U perm given no other choice, but you'd have to ask an FMCer, because they would actually know what they're talking about.
     
  18. Cale S

    Cale S Member

    2,359
    771
    Jan 18, 2014
    Iowa, USA
    WCA:
    2014SCHO02
    YouTube:
    mathtornado7
    Optimal is R U' L U2 R2 D' F2 D U L' U' R U'
     
  19. Rnewms

    Rnewms Member

    165
    9
    Apr 7, 2013
    South Carolina
    WCA:
    2013NEWM01
    R' F' R L U2 r' U2 R2 D R' U R' U
     
  20. Sebastien

    Sebastien Premium Member

    800
    20
    Apr 22, 2008
    WCA:
    2008AURO01
    Well, that's clearly false. twisted corners give the best cancelations as you have the most freedom during the first insertion. 2 twisted corners is surely the best "2 insertions" case. However, of course it is nicer in general to end up with 3 permuted corners instead of 3 twisted corners, as the former requires only one insertion.

    In the end, it's always a matter your skeleton's length.
     

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