The FMC thread

Discussion in 'General Speedcubing Discussion' started by blah, Jul 12, 2009.

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  1. yoinneroid

    yoinneroid Member

    723
    2
    May 15, 2010
    WCA:
    2010UTOM01
    YouTube:
    yoinneroid
    you seem to learn quite a lot within such a short time :O
     
  2. guysensei1

    guysensei1 Member

    4,916
    342
    Nov 24, 2013
    Singing pores
    WCA:
    2014WENW01
    Nah this scramble is just luck.
     
  3. Brest

    Brest Super Reconstructor Staff Member

    2,182
    189
    Sep 30, 2010
    WCA:
    2011STUA01
    YouTube:
    BrestCubing
    Linear skeleton
    U' R' D' R D' F2 D'
    R' U' F' U R U
    F2 U F' L F' L' F'

    IF gives:
    U' R' D' R D' F2 D' R' U' F' [@1] U R U F2 U F' L F' L' F'
    Insert at @1: F2 U B2 U' F2 U B2 U'
    After the 1st insertion: U' R' D' R D' F2 D' R' U' F [@2] U B2 U' F2 U B2 R U F2 U F' L F' L' F'
    Insert at @2: F' U' B U F U' B' U
    Fewest moves: 29. 7 moves cancelled
    The final solution: U' R' D' R D' F2 D' R' U2 B U F U' B' U2 B2 U' F2 U B2 R U F2 U F' L F' L' F'
     
  4. G2013

    G2013 Member

    715
    39
    Jul 8, 2014
    In the underground
    WCA:
    2013DIPI01
    I am new at fewest but I'll give a try anyway.

    U' B D B' D' B' D B2 U L' F U L' F U' L' U' L2 F L2 F' L U' L2 B' U2 B U2 L' F R F' L2 F R' L U' F2 U F' U' F D R U R' D' R U' R' B2 (51 HTM)
    I'm bad...
    Again, fridrich has lower movecount:

    R' D2 R' D' L2 - cross
    U' F' U2 F2 R' F' R -f2l 1
    U2 L' U L U2 L U L' - f2l 2
    R' U' L' U' L R - f2l 3
    U B U' B' U B U2 B' R' U' R B U B' U' R' U' R U B U2 B' - f2l 4 and EO
    l' U' L' U R U' L U - OLL
    L U' L D2 L' U L D2 L2 - PLL

    R' D2 R' D' L2 U' F' U2 F2 R' F' R U2 L' U L U2 L U L' R' U' L' U' L R U B U' B' U B U2 B' R' U' R B U B' U' R' U' R U B U2 B' R' F' L' F R F' L F L F' L B2 L' F L B2 L2 (65 HTM)

    Well, no...
     
  5. G2013

    G2013 Member

    715
    39
    Jul 8, 2014
    In the underground
    WCA:
    2013DIPI01
    Can 2 x (2-cycle) be created intuitively like 3-cycle?
    Setup: D R U R' D' R U' R' L D R' D' L' D R D'
    I can solve it with 2 3-cycle commutators, but can it be solved with only 1 optimal intuitive algorithm that switchs the 4 corners into their right place?
    Thanks
     
  6. yoinneroid

    yoinneroid Member

    723
    2
    May 15, 2010
    WCA:
    2010UTOM01
    YouTube:
    yoinneroid
    nope, you need to do it twice, so try doing it in different parts of the solution to maximize cancellations
     
  7. G2013

    G2013 Member

    715
    39
    Jul 8, 2014
    In the underground
    WCA:
    2013DIPI01
    That's the hardest part! Thanks
     
  8. guysensei1

    guysensei1 Member

    4,916
    342
    Nov 24, 2013
    Singing pores
    WCA:
    2014WENW01
    An example solve for critique:
    B2 L2 U' R2 U L2 U2 B2 U2 F2 U2 B D2 B D F2 D2 L' U' B' R2
    Premove: B2
    L U2 R F2 R'//2x2x2 (5)
    U2 L2 U' L2//2x2x3 (4)
    switch to inverse,
    R' F R F U F2 U' F U2 F' U F//F2L (12)
    R' U' F' U F R U2//LLEF (all but 4 corners) (7)

    Skeleton so far: L U2 R F2 R' U2 L2 U' L2 U2 R' F' U' F U R F' U' F U2 F' U F2 U' F' R' F' R B2

    I have to go now, so I just plugged it into IF. (anyway my insertion skills are abysmal I can tell you that myself!)
    L U2 R F2 R' U2 L2 U' L2 U2 R' F' [@1] U' F U R F' U' F U2 F' U F2 U' F' R' F' R B2
    Insert at @1: R' U' R F R' U R U' F' U
    After the 1st insertion: L U2 R F2 R' U2 L2 U' L2 U2 R' F' R' U' R F R' U R2 F' U' F U2 F' [@2] U F2 U' F' R' F' R B2
    Insert at @2: F U2 F' R F R' U2 R F' R'
    Fewest moves: 36. 13 moves cancelled
    The final solution: L U2 R F2 R' U2 L2 U' L2 U2 R' F' R' U' R F R' U R2 F' U' R F R' U2 R F' R' U F2 U' F' R' F' R B2

    Any critique for the blockbuilding techniques?
     
  9. uesyuu

    uesyuu Member

    47
    3
    Mar 6, 2011
    Japan
    WCA:
    2008UENO01
    YouTube:
    uesyuu0281
    L U2 R F2 R'//2x2x2
    U2 L2 U' L2//2x2x3
    U F' U' L F L' U2 //F2L-1
    U F U' F R' F R F //L3C

    Your continuation after 2x2x3 is too long.
    You need to find more efficient continuation.
    Do not use only F2L.
    You should use blockbuilding-thinking.
     
  10. G2013

    G2013 Member

    715
    39
    Jul 8, 2014
    In the underground
    WCA:
    2013DIPI01
    Help!!
    Scramble: D' R D' R U2 L U2 B2 R L' F L D' U2 F L U2 D' F U2 D2 L2 R2 F2 R
    Solution: F D F D' U F' L F2 L' F' L' F U' F' L F L' U2 L2 F L' U R U' L U R' U2 R U' R' U2 F' U' F U R U R' B2 R' B2 R' U' D2 L2 U2
    If I do first solution, then scramble the cube solves... but I want to do first scramble, then solution, and solve the cube.
    In which way do I need to reverse/invert/whatever it?
    Tha solution is:
    F D F D' U F' L F2 L' F' L' F U' F' L F L' U2 L2 F: Done in Normal
    U2 L2 D2 U R B2 R B2 R U' R' U' F' U F U2 R U R' U2 R U' L' U R' U' L: Done in inverse
    ...

    If I undo premoves the solve is what I wrote above, but that doesn't work...
     
  11. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    Interesting stuff going on in the FMC at US Nationals:

    1st scramble: 15 of 105 people got sub 30; Vincent Sheu on top with 22 HTM
    2nd scramble: 3 sub 30; Vincent Sheu on top with 23 HTM

    I'm looking forward to the scramble and wishing Vincent a similar result on the 3rd round!


    http://www.cubingusa.com/usnationals2014/results/live.php?cid=575&cat=15&rnd=1

    EDIT: 1st scramble L2 F L2 R2 B2 R2 B' R2 F U2 L2 D B2 U' F' L' B2 R' U2 L2

    L R B' D' B2 D2 F' // 2x2x3 (7)
    R U' // Setup pair (9)
    R' U' R' // XXCross setup to EO (12)
    F' U F // EO (15)
    R' U2 R // Insert pair (18)
    U' R U2 R' // Last pair + LL skip (22)
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2014
  12. Jimmy Liu

    Jimmy Liu Member

    149
    0
    Jul 7, 2014
    WCA:
    2011LIUR02
    The FM Taiwan single record 31 moves lasting for almost five years, finally being broken by my 30 moves result!
    Since the mean of 3 round was the first time that Taiwan ever held, I'm happy to set the record by 33.00 of 3.

    1st Scramble: U2 R2 D2 B2 U2 B2 L2 D B2 R D' B L' B2 R U2 B2 R2
    Solution: B' R' B' R L B L' B' L' D L D' B R2 U2 R2 B' R' B U' R' U2 B2 R U' D' B' F2 L' R' (30 moves)

    apply on inverse:

    R L F2 B D (2x2x2 block)
    U R' B2 (make a 2x2x1 block)
    U2 R U B' R B R2 U2 R2 (insert those blocks)

    switch to normal:

    pre-moves: R2 U2 R2 B' R' B U' R' U2 B2 R U' D' B' F2 L' R'
    B' R' B' R (F2L)
    L B L' B' L' D L D' B (OLL)
    PLL skip!!!

    2nd Scramble: U B2 L2 U' L2 D' B2 F2 D F R D' L2 D R B' R2 U' R B
    Solution: D' B2 D2 L2 R' D' R2 D' F' D' R F2 U L' D L D' L U' F D F D' L D2 L' D' F2 L D' L' F D2 (33 moves)

    apply on normal:

    D' B2 D2 L2 (2x2x2 block)
    R' D' R2 D' F' R (2x2x3 block)

    switch to inverse:

    pre-moves: R' F D R2 D R L2 D2 B2 D
    D2 F' L D L' F2 (F2L-1)
    D L D2 L' D F' D' F (F2L-2)
    OLL skip!
    F2 U L' D L' D' L U' F2 R' D R (PLL)
    cancel 2 moves from premoves to PLL

    3rd Scramble: D2 L D2 F2 L B2 R2 F2 D U' R' D F2 D B2 F D' U' F'
    Solution: L' F' L' F U2 R B' L B L' B R' U' B' U2 B L2 B L2 B' U' L U2 L2 B' U' B D F' D F2 U L D L2 U2 (36 moves)

    apply on inverse:

    U2 L2 D' L' (2x2x1 block)
    U' F2 D' F D' (2x2x3 block)
    B' U B L2 U2 L' U2 (finish two layers)
    U' B L2 B' L2 B' U2 B U' (OLL)
    U2 R B' L B' L' B R' U2 F' L F L (PLL)
    SUCKS!

    So my total WCA FM results are 33 30 33 36, the average is 33.^^
     
  13. G2013

    G2013 Member

    715
    39
    Jul 8, 2014
    In the underground
    WCA:
    2013DIPI01
    Congratulations for NR average and single FMC!!
     
  14. Dane man

    Dane man Member

    262
    0
    Jul 9, 2010
    Earth
    Alright, I want to get into this FMC thing. It's about time that I've started doing it. I already know how, I just need to actually participate and practice. Hopefully I'm good (or lucky) at it.

    To get a feel for how you all do FMC, I've got a few questions:

    What are the pros and cons (or best parts) of each FMC method (CFOP, Roux, Petrus, Heise, etc.)?
    How do you organize your 1 hour for finding a solution?
    How do you organize your solutions?
    What do you think is the most useful technique and why (alternate algs for cancelations, insertions, premoves, inverses/NISS, etc.)?
     
  15. guysensei1

    guysensei1 Member

    4,916
    342
    Nov 24, 2013
    Singing pores
    WCA:
    2014WENW01
    I'll try to answer some.

    1) CFOP: easy, but terribly inefficient. Roux: Efficient, but M slices are counted as 2. Petrus: Well the first 2 steps are what most people do. The rest, idk.
    2) -not worthy of answering because I have no organisation-
    3)-I have no idea either-
    4) Premoves and insertions. These are the easiest to understand, followed my inverses/NISS. Alternate algs are useful but not necessary IMO.
     
  16. kinch2002

    kinch2002 Premium Member

    2,503
    4
    Dec 22, 2008
    Guildford! UK!
    WCA:
    2009SHEP01
    YouTube:
    kinch2002
    Never use CFOP. The odd F2L alg or OLL (with PLL skip) might help towards the end of a solution, but otherwise you should not think about CFOP. The most common approach is Petrus/Heise style with blocks at the start, then trying to solve most other stuff to leave an insertion, often thinking about EO to help you with solving all edges.
    Work until I find a good enough block (aiming for < 10 move 2x2x3 usually), then just try every possible continuation I can see until I get a skeleton that will likely get me < 30 move solution. Keep finding skeletons until I have the time left to do an insertion.
    Not sure what you mean by this? I just write everything interesting down on the paper and draw arrows and notate stuff etc.
    If you want to become world-class (average < 30) then:
    Alternate algs - Not particularly useful. I would never learn them specifically for FM.
    Insertions - Essential. Learn 3 corners, then 4/5 corners. Edges is not essential but occasionally useful.
    Premoves, inverse, NISS - Essential. They are fundamentally all the same thing as each other really.
    Algs for short LL cases - Occasionally useful. I also find these very interesting to know :)

    I will also make a shameless plug for my Cubing World video that talks through what to learn for FM.
     
  17. goodatthis

    goodatthis Member

    836
    7
    Jan 11, 2014
    NY
    WCA:
    2014CAVA01
    YouTube:
    Goodatthis123
    1. First of all, I really wouldn't say that a "method" is used for FMC. If you just wanted to do straight solves with no insertions, NISS, premoves, etc, then I would probably say that mixtures of Heise, Petrus, Tripod, and other heavy blockbuilding methods are used. But really FMC is just trying out different ways of making blocks or other things that I would basically consider it freestyle blockbuilding. Generally, tripod is the best way to get to L3C, but usually you incoropate some sort of EO before then, and you don't do a tripod LL. So I would basically just say try to build an F2L-1 (lots of ways to do this, just experiment, but usually 2x2x2 to 2x2x3 to add 2x2x1 is a good way to go)

    2. There's lots of ways of doing this, but what most people do is just try to find some good blocks and continuations with those blocks. Try the inverse scramble as well. Some people write everything down, some people just try different things until they get something interesting and then write it down. I personally am not good at FMC in a competition setting, so sorry for the lack of advice in this part.

    3. I'm assuming you mean the notation for the steps of FMC, like:

    Random moves // 2x2x2
    Random moves // 2x2x3
    Random moves // add square
    Random moves // EO
    Random moves// to L3C

    It's really just detailing the steps you took. Nothing special.

    3. Everything. Alternate algs probably aren't very useful, because if you used a common OCLL to solve a L3C case at the end, you could just as easily use an alternate commutator to insert earlier in the solution and cancel even more moves. When you first start, I would say just try using everything, if you can understand it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  18. okayama

    okayama Member

    519
    8
    May 9, 2010
    Hiroshima, Japan
    WCA:
    2009OKAY01
    YouTube:
    okayamat
    Here are my winning solutions from Cube Camp in Kanazawa 2014.

    1st scramble: D2 U' F2 U F2 R2 U' L2 F2 R2 U' R F' L' R' U' L2 D F' D2 U
    1st solution: U2 D' F' B' U R' L D L' F U2 B' L' D2 L2 B2 L U B U' B' L2 B2 U B' D2 B U' B' D (30 moves)
    30 min backup solution.

    (Normal)

    1x2x2 block: U2 D' F'
    1x2x3 block: B' U R'
    2x2x3 block: L D L' F U2
    Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot: B' L' D2 L

    (Inverse)
    Pre-scramble: L' D2 L B U2 F' L D' L' R U' B F D U2

    Pseudo F2L: D * B' L
    All but 3 corners: L B U B' U' L' B2 L'
    Correction: L' D2 L B U2 F' L D' L' R U' B F D U2

    Insert at *: D2 B U B' D2 B U' B'

    In the final 10 min, I found the following one:

    Pre-scramble: R D' R'

    1x2x2 block: U2 F'
    1x2x3 block: B' U R'
    2x2x3 block: F U L U
    Finish F2L: B2 D2
    All but 3 corners: B D' B' D B' D' B2 D (I wrote down B D' B D B D' B2 D)
    Correction: R D' R'

    but I couldn't write down a correct skeleton in time. :(
    So I decided to give up this skeleton and submitted the backup solution.

    Tomoyuki Hiraide said he found the same skeleton (gives 28 moves) in 5~6 min.

    2nd scramble: D2 U2 B' F' R2 F' L2 F D L F R' F' L2 F U2 L' B2 F2
    2nd solution: L' U' L D2 L' U L U' B' D' L U L' B' L B' L U B U' B' L D U2 L' U2 L2 (27 moves)
    Here is my 30 min backup solution (31 moves).

    Pre-scramble: F R'

    3 c/e pairs: U'
    c/e pair: L'
    2x2x1 block: F
    2x2x2 block: L B' L
    More square: U R F2 R2
    More square: U2 F
    Finish Pseudo F2L: U B
    All but 3 corners: L' U' B' U B L
    Correct pseudoness: B' * R'
    Premoves correction: F R'

    Insert at *: B' D' B U2 B' D B U2

    In the remaining time, I found the following solution.

    (Normal)

    3 c/e pairs: U'
    Pseudo 2x2x2 block: D2 B' D'

    (Inverse)
    Pre-scramble: D B D2 U

    More square: L2 U2 L
    Pseudo 2x2x3 block: U2 D'
    Pseudo F2L minus 1 slot: L2

    (Normal)
    Pre-scramble: L2 D U2 L' U2 L2

    1st square: U'
    F2L minus 1 slot: D2 B' D' L U
    Finish F2L: L' B' L
    All but 3 corners: B' L U B U' B' L'
    Correction: L2 D U2 L' U2 L2

    Insert at the beginning: L' U' L D2 L' U L D2

    3rd scramble: F2 L' B2 D2 R' B2 L F2 U2 R' U B' R U' B L F' L' F D'
    3rd solution: D2 F D' R' U' R2 L' U' L F' L F B' U B R' F R F' B D' B' U B D U2 B D' B' U2 B D B2 (33 moves)
    (Normal)

    c/e pair: D2
    2x2x2 block: F D' R' U' R2

    (Inverse)
    Pre-scramble: R2 U R D F' D2

    2x2x3 block: U' F R' F' R
    F2L minus 1 slot: B' U' B
    Orient edges: F' L' F
    All but 4 corners: L' U L

    I did insertions in the final 10 minutes as:

    Skeleton on the normal scramble: D2 F D' R' U' R2 L' U' L F' L F B' U B R' F R F' U
    Corner 3-cycle: U' B D' B' U B D * B'
    Insert at *: U2 B D' B' U2 B D B'

    IF says the optimal insertions give 28 moves.

    mean of 3: 30, 27, 33 = 30, not good for me again, but this was the best I could do in the competition.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2014
  19. Iggy

    Iggy Member

    3,429
    66
    Oct 22, 2011
    Near Shrewsbury, UK
    WCA:
    2012SEVE01
    YouTube:
    ToaIggy
    My solution for this week's Weekly Comp:

    Scramble: B2 U2 B2 F2 R' B2 R U2 L D2 R' F R U2 L2 R2 F D U F' L2
    My solution: L' R2 D' F2 D' B' L2 F' L' F L2 R2 B' L B' R U' B U' R2 U2 R2 U R U2 B U B' U2 D (30)

    Pseudo 2x2x2 (premove D): L' R2 D' F2 D'
    2x2x3: B' R2 * B2 R U' B
    F2L: U' R2 U2 R2 U R U2 B U B' U2 (22)
    Undo premove: D

    *= L2 R2 F' L' F L2 R2 B' L B

    PB and tied the NR. I'm kinda happy with this, but at the same time a bit disappointed that it isn't sub 30. Any tips?
     
  20. G2013

    G2013 Member

    715
    39
    Jul 8, 2014
    In the underground
    WCA:
    2013DIPI01
    Can anyone explain me what are inserted moves and how to use that technique?
     

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