# [Help Thread]Roux Discussion and Help

#### macncheese

##### Member
What techniques do you use to practice first block? It takes me one minute to build both my blocks! I think I will switch to zz because I can't get sub 1 for three months!

#### 1001010101001

##### Member
What techniques do you use to practice first block? It takes me one minute to build both my blocks! I think I will switch to zz because I can't get sub 1 for three months!
1. Square.
2. Pair / insert pair
Example: (block on DR)
Scramble R U D R' F L' F' B2
F Uw B/ Square
L U2 L'/ pair
F2/ insert
Another way is to not learn Roux yet but start with LMCF and if you like how it goes then switch to around when you are faster.
For first block practice I give myself a block limit (14 moves beginners) then slowly decrease it by 1 when you get comfortable with your move limit. The Gods Number for FB is 9 and SB 13(I think)

#### macncheese

##### Member
Block are pretty intuititve. You don't really need a tutorial. Check algs on kian's site if you really want to learn thru algs. Cmll you can check Geneva's cubing process. L6E check kian's video tutorial

#### Sune

##### Member
Yet another question on color neutrality. I have searched and read the old threads debating pros and cons of it and can understand both sides' arguments and personally lean to the side of "having easier recognition over saving 1-2 moves", but not sure how I should approach it in pure practical terms.

I picked up Roux several days ago after a 9-years break from cubing and was experimenting with different color neutrality subsets. A plain y2-neutrality (predetermined L/R colors, white always on D) seems the easiest by far. As a former white-cross CFOP solver, my hands just "know" the correct edge orientations while doing F2B, and my second block is the fastest this way.

If I try to add x2-neutrality (white/yellow D), my second block slows down quite a lot. I have to remember an extra bit of information - what's on bottom - and still tend to make wrong pairs and put them in wrong slots. I guess this problem goes away with practice.

If I try y-neutrality (fixed white D, any side color), my F2B are fine, but I have to make a pause during EO to check current L/R colors (and still mess them up from time to time). I guess this problem also goes away with practice.

Going for the most common x2+y seems too much hassle for me, I'd rather have more automatic solve even if it's marginally less optimal. So, my questions are:
Is y2 neutrality (2 blocks) way too limiting in practice?
Of the 4-block neutralities, x2 y2 (worse SB) or y (worse EO), which one gets easier faster?

##### Member
Yet another question on color neutrality. I have searched and read the old threads debating pros and cons of it and can understand both sides' arguments and personally lean to the side of "having easier recognition over saving 1-2 moves", but not sure how I should approach it in pure practical terms.

I picked up Roux several days ago after a 9-years break from cubing and was experimenting with different color neutrality subsets. A plain y2-neutrality (predetermined L/R colors, white always on D) seems the easiest by far. As a former white-cross CFOP solver, my hands just "know" the correct edge orientations while doing F2B, and my second block is the fastest this way.

If I try to add x2-neutrality (white/yellow D), my second block slows down quite a lot. I have to remember an extra bit of information - what's on bottom - and still tend to make wrong pairs and put them in wrong slots. I guess this problem goes away with practice.

If I try y-neutrality (fixed white D, any side color), my F2B are fine, but I have to make a pause during EO to check current L/R colors (and still mess them up from time to time). I guess this problem also goes away with practice.

Going for the most common x2+y seems too much hassle for me, I'd rather have more automatic solve even if it's marginally less optimal. So, my questions are:
Is y2 neutrality (2 blocks) way too limiting in practice?
Of the 4-block neutralities, x2 y2 (worse SB) or y (worse EO), which one gets easier faster?
Well, I think your long term goal should really be x2 y neutrality in which case y might be better though I won't hesitate to point out that x2 y is only a couple weeks of getting used to before it becomes pretty automatic (at least in my experience) so it may still be worth just starting out with x2 y tbh.

#### SiTeMaRo

##### Member
Does anyone know what is the minimum move count for ANY first block? Like CFOP's cross (8 moves or less).

#### CJRP

##### Member
Hello everybody.

I can solve the cube with corners first almost always under two minutes, my record being 1:13 once I was lucky. I have also times of 1:19, 1:20, and 1:21, nothing new, I know.

I use this "foolproof" solution which basically involves four algorithms and a fifth one I learned elsewhere.

http://www.alchemistmatt.com/cube/altrubik.html

This algorithm below is to put the corners in the correct place. It has to be used once or twice.

U-1 F U L-1 U L U-1 F2

This other algorithm below is for putting the corners in the correct position. It has to be used from one to several times. I am aware there is a set of seven algorithms to use the proper one only once, but let's leave that for now.

U-1 F2 U F U-1 F U F2

Both algorithms require the solved corners back an the ones to solve in certain positions in the front.

Now the issue comes in. I tried to switch to Roux and I want the pair of two algorithms for solving the corners, which has to be different from that pair above since the first algorithm removes one edge from one of the 3x2x1 blocks.

NOW THE QUESTIONS

Could you experienced cubers tell me which are the two algorithms that suffice for Roux corners and that don't mess up any of the 3x2x1 block edges, even if those algorithms have to be executed more than once?

Bonus question:

Is there any pair of algorithms that preserves the second algorithm which doesn't mess up edges but adds another algorithm for placement as the one for orientation I have works?

Feel free to have a look at the website I linked if you want to understand the two algorithms I mentioned better.

Sorry for the long message, but I hope it is at least clear enough. Two sufficing algorithms for Roux corners, if possible keeping the second one above.

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#### xyzzy

##### Member
Could you experienced cubers tell me which are the two algorithms that suffice for Roux corners and that don't mess up any of the 3x2x1 block edges, even if those algorithms have to be executed more than once?
Hold the cube so that the solved blocks are on the bottom-left and bottom-right.

First alg: L' U R U' L U R' (swaps the corners on the right side of the top face)
Second alg: R' U2 R U R' U R (actually the same as your alg, but executed at a different angle)

Is there any pair of algorithms that preserves the second algorithm which doesn't mess up edges but adds another algorithm for placement as the one for orientation I have works?
The answer to "is there an algorithm for this" is probably yes, but I'm not sure what exactly you're looking for. A picture would help.

#### with_joerg

##### Member
Starting with Roux. I have the issue that in the tables and overviews published on the internet I can rarely find my CMLL case and thus no applicable algs. I decided to post such a case to learn here how I can lookup the algs for this case or if I understand something fundamentally wrong (< that would explain why my cases cannot be found ) Here is a picture.

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#### obelisk477

##### Member
What is your current method for recognition?
Starting with Roux. I have the issue that in the tables and overviews published on the internet I can rarely find my CMLL case and thus no applicable algs. I decided to post such a case to learn here how I can lookup the algs for this case or if I understand something fundamentally wrong (< that would explain why my cases cannot be found ) Here is a picture.
None of the above You have a physically twisted corner that cannot be solved with algorithms. Solve first two blocks, phyiscally twist all of the corners upwards so that their yellow stickers are on top, and then lookup the CMLL. This should solve your issue

#### with_joerg

##### Member
I would like to ask where I can find the best resoources for Roux LSE step 4b. Most of the instructions either finish at LSE stap 4a (EO) or discuss steps 4a and ab only very high level or -- are completely ununderstandable and confusing.

Where can I find good help with Roux LSE?

#### with_joerg

##### Member
Thanks, I will probably have to watch the films since Waffle's website is not functioning any more. The pictures and tables on his website do not display.