Photographic Memories?

Discussion in 'Blindsolving Discussion' started by Ickathu, Feb 13, 2012.

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  1. Ickathu

    Ickathu Member

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    So, as you may or may not have guessed by the title, I was wondering if there are any BLDers who have photographic memories? i.e., look at something for a few seconds and then the image is memorized. If someone did have a photographic memory, would they be great at blind? Look at 6 sides for 1 second each and you can just refer to that during execution. 6 second memo is pretty fast...
    Anyway, I know a kid, and he (probably) has a photographic memory. He's only 5 now, but he could almost completely read when he was 4 - his parents would show him a word on a card, tell him what it said, and then several hours and even days later they could show him the card and he knew exactly what it said immediately. (Meanwhile my 6 year old brother is barely just now learning how to read.)
    So, as he is only 5, he is a little too young for me to start teaching him... I think... But I was thinking that maybe when he got older I could teach him normal 3x3, and then the basics of blind. Maybe my idea is completely wrong, but I think having a photographic memory and a fast turning speed would result in a really fast BLDer...

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. aronpm

    aronpm Member

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    This is a terrible way to memorise the cube. It requires too much post-memo processing of the memorised material.
    That's not "photographic memory"; it's called the-fact-that-some-people-learn-things-faster-than-others.
     
  3. Owen

    Owen Member

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  4. Sahid Velji

    Sahid Velji Member

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    Eidetic memory is the term you are looking for. I'm almost certain that nobody has been able to prove long term eidetic memory in scientific tests. Maybe with 2-3 exceptions. These people are extremely rare and the chance of them cubing is even rarer (is this a word?).
     
  5. cmhardw

    cmhardw Premium Member

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    As a general rule, what most people refer to as "photographic" memory is a complete myth. There does exist eidetic memory, however.

    Memorizing a Rubik's cube in less than 8 seconds by someone with eidetic memory would not really give them much of an advantage over the current world class people. For argument's sake let's say that someone with perfectly efficient eidetic memory could memorize a Rubik's cube in 2 seconds (1 second glance at UFR sides, 1 second glance at DBL sides) they would still need to be a world class speedsolver to beat the current record times. Assuming they equalled the solving speed of the world class BLD cubers now, then that would be an improvement of around 5-8 seconds.

    In short, most BLD cubers think that photographic memory is a total myth. Competitive memory experts generally also claim that photographic memory is a myth, with Joshua Foer being one example. Josh spends a good bit of time talking about exactly this issue in his book "Moonwalking with Einstein". He gives several examples of people with eidetic memory, either through autism or stroke, or through birth, but this is extremely rare and is usually accompanied by deficiencies in other areas. However, the exaggerated claims of what people typically associate with "photographic" memory he also dismisses as myth.
     
  6. RNewms27

    RNewms27 Member

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    I remember events and can playback like a video in my thoughts, but I usually can't do it on command. I have to think of it multiple times before I can do so and sometimes I can't do it. I'm also sure everyone can do it.

    Even if you saw the pieces quickly you would still have to process how to solve it.
     
  7. Ickathu

    Ickathu Member

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    Meh. Bummer. Oh well...
    Oh yeah... Same kid...
    So he's over at my house playing with my little bro and I'm solving 5x5. He comes over and watches for a minute, and then I solve it. He wants to know if he can try. So I turn it ~5 times, both inner and outer layer turns. That doesn't sound like much but generate a 5x5 scramble and only do the first 5 moves... Yeah, especially for a then barely 4yo... So anyway, I hand him the cube and he starts turning it. I turn away for a second, and then he starts shouting in my ear that he did it. I turn around and kind of stare at him for a few seconds... Then my jaw fell off and hit the floor. lol. Anyway, so I do another couple turns on it again - without him watching - and then he solves it again... I had forgotten about that. It's not blind related, but it was pretty cool.
     
  8. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    5 years for regular 3x3x3 is not too young at all.
    And you may even argue that BLD is easier to teach than regular solving :)
     
  9. Tim Major

    Tim Major Platinum Member

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    In psychology a week ago, our teacher asked everyone to think of something. 24 kids in the class, 24 items. Everyone said their item once, and we had to memorise it in order. Class average was 18.2 (based on trust, so it's probably lower due to the competitive nature). I got 18, using a story, meanwhile my friend got 24 with no method. This friend, I taught him how to solve a rubik's cube during recess, which goes for 15 minutes. He memorised all the algorithms first or second try, and the next day, I had my cube again, and he did his first solve. He memorised 40 digits of pi in about 20 minutes, and can still recite then months later with little to no practice. Same with the periodic table. I've just accepted that he has an insane memory, especially compared to mine. He sees or hears things once and he remembers it forever. Our teacher went through Loci, but it doesn't work for my friend. He's much better at just random memory. I tried writing them down now and got 22, so I added two on the end to make it 24. Read through them once, quickly, wait a minute, then recall them. Post your results in a spoiler (all words) and how you got it (any method). Just curious as the class ranged from 12-24 correct with varying results.
    Cucumber
    Book
    Accordion
    Fish
    Mango
    Phone
    Kitten
    Xylophone
    Dog
    Soccer Ball
    Tusk
    Apple
    Cup
    Guitar
    Pencil Case
    Clock
    Pen lid
    Lemon
    Sloth
    Syringe
    Sphere
    Box
    Table
    Bird
    After doing that, read this.
    We also checked which words were correct. Everyone got the last 3, most people got the first 3, everyone got syringe. Words at the start and end are when you remember the most, which is why they're the most expensive slots in tv show breaks. Words like syringe are memorable, out of the norm. Everyone also got clock right, because the teacher misheard so it had to be repeated. Cup was one of the least memorable, only a few students got it. I think everyone got xylophone too. Anyway, post your results in a spoiler. Just curious. I expect people good at BLD to ace this, but I'm interested in hearing from everyone.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2012
  10. ressMox

    ressMox Member

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    No one has really been proven to have a truly eidetic memory. Some people can recall things better then others, but not at the level that you are thinking of. The closest thing to "total recall" would be savantism, but I think that is too rare to even use as an example, and most savants are only savants when it comes to a specific thing. Some people use visual cues to help them remember things, but that's the thing, these are just cues that are used because it is too difficult to visualize every turn made on the cube. To use a visual method or any method for BLD you would not only have to remember it, you would have to remember the positions in a format that can be easily processed and allows you to jump quickly from step to step.
     
  11. JasonK

    JasonK Premium Member

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    My results:
    table bird sloth syringe mango phone accordion book pen-lid apple cup guitar lemon kitten xylophone dog soccer ball sausage (no idea where sausage came from)
    so 18/24

    Just straight-up image pairs: read two words, associate them together, go to next two words. Did this very quickly (a couple of seconds per pair), if I'd taken a bit longer I could have used a journey/story and got more of them. Pretty happy with this - haven't really done it before.
     
  12. Florian

    Florian Member

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    My Results
    cucumber
    book
    accordion
    fish
    mango
    phone
    kitten
    xylophone
    dog
    soccer ball
    tusk
    syringe
    sphere
    clock
    cup
    box
    pen lid
    pencil case
    guitar
    lemon
     
  13. AbstractAlg

    AbstractAlg Member

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    I've read it straight forward, and got 14.

    anyway, I think bld cubers don't have to be aces at this game, because bld solvers (yeah, that's us), we remember letters, words, symbols that are used so many times, common phrases, almost the same words that we use every time we practice bld solving. that's why this is also new to us as is for every person out there. also, some people are more accurate with sound/image/number list than word list. if you could do a massive research and conduct the experiment with 50-100 persons that don't do bld, and the same number of bld solvers, that would give you results that are legit. like this, it is just a game of memory.

    speaking of photographic memory, my buddy has it, and he can memorize cube and solve it in 4mins with Fridrich. memo takes up to 2mins. So yeah... you get a conclusion. :fp
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2012
  14. Stefan

    Stefan Member

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    I do, but it's probably not what you think.
     
  15. Ickathu

    Ickathu Member

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    What does that mean?
     
  16. chris410

    chris410 Member

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    A friend of mine has a memory that is unlike anything I have ever encountered, he can read back the page of any book he reads word by word and he can recite the words from any point and backwards as well. He is the only person I have come across who has that ability and he cannot explain how he does it. Yet, he says he does not have "photographic/eidetic" memory.

    I think everyone has a memory where you can see an image or "experience" in great detail. The problem with "photographic memory" and BLD cubing would be the tracing. As soon as a move is made the mental image of the cube needs to be adjusted hence, I do not believe it would work for BLD where the paths of movement come into play. (I am starting to learn BLD so by no means am I an expert) I think the people who are world-class at BLD can create the Edge/Corner paths and commit them to memory very quickly and execute the solve with precision. That being said, I think people who can solve the big cubes are blessed with great memory even though they use a system to store the information. The fact that they are able to recall and execute is IMO extremely impressive.

    Going back to memory, I think emotion has a lot to do with it. When I was in college I could recall pages of my Calculus examples so during tests, I was able to re-write some examples to help me on some tests. However, it seems that any time I am able to see an image with great detail that some emotion was tied to it. I cannot simply look at something random and recall everything in great detail however, there are times where some emotion causes me to create an image and recall with great detail. I think EVERYONE has this ability and could probably recount something similar to this. Personally, I do not believe I have any form or "photographic/eidetic" memory simply because at times I can recall words/images/etc...with great detail. I think it has more to do with my brain being focused on committing something to memory which is triggered by an emotional response to something.

    Whether or not photographic or eidetic memory exists is beyond anything I know however, I think everyone has a certain degree of photographic/eidetic memory which is tied to some event/emotion which causes our brain to recall something in great detail. The people who can recall images in great detail such has the artist who was flown over New York city and was able to draw the city from memory is using some portion of the brain that most of us have yet to unlock. However, I would venture to say that having the ability to draw the image is where the true gift lies since most of us could recall and image and not draw it.

    Link to the artist: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...aws-18ft-picture-New-York-skyline-memory.html
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2012
  17. radmin

    radmin Member

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  18. toastman

    toastman Member

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    Cucumber
    Book
    Accordion
    Fish
    Mango
    Phone
    Kitten
    Xylophone
    Dog
    Soccer Ball
    Tusk
    Apple
    [MISS] Cup
    Guitar
    Pencil Case
    Clock
    Pen lid
    [MISS] Lemon
    [MISS] Sloth
    [MISS] Syringe
    [MISS] Sphere
    [MISS] Box
    Table
    Bird

    How I got it

    This is a technique that I use to remember lists (but not for BLD). You basically chain the images together, so you get 2 "shots" at it.
    A cucumber pierces a book.
    A book is played like an accordion.
    An accordion is played by a fish
    A fish is eating a mango
    A novelty telephone is shaped like a mango etc.

    I hurried at the end (I'm actually in a training seminar right now), but I should have counted the number of items and realised I was missing a chunk or 5 or 6. If I'd remembered any of them, I'd have likely gotten 2-3 more.

    Also, who in the class said "cucumber"? Pervert!
     
  19. Tim Major

    Tim Major Platinum Member

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    I'm surprised you missed the one starting with sy, everyone in my class got it due to it's nature. We made a graph of the results and we could explain why some were highly memorable and some were low. The results made perfect sense.
     
  20. cucumber, book
    accordian, fish
    mango, phone
    xylephone, kitten
    dog, soccer ball
    tusk, apple
    sloth, syringe
    sphere, cube
    table, bird
    guitar, cup
    pencil case, clock
    lemon , pen cap
    Memo sub 1 minute..

    No particular order however I probably could put them in order just too lazy.

    My personal favorite was...
    xylephone kitten, I imagined a xylephone and I was playing it with kittens, blood was everywhere

    On this topic I took an aptitude test a while ago that determined "memory"

    they made you look at a white frame that has ~30 or so objects in it for about 5 minutes.

    they then turn the page and you tell them what change, It could be anything from the rulers numbers chaning to the pencil turning 45% or them replacing a cucumber with a rod. they had like 50 or so pages that they turned. I actually thought I did quite bad since I got ~5-10 wrong (seemed easy enough)

    I scored in the 95% of everyone that got tested there (Quite a large number of people from an institute that has been open for 20 years or something)
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012

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