One-Answer WCA Competition and Regulations Question Thread

Discussion in 'One-Answer Question Forum' started by HelpCube, May 1, 2012.

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  1. mark49152

    mark49152 Premium Member

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    Is it permissible to take in an extra cube during a multiblind attempt and use it to keep the hands warmed up during the memo phase?

    If 3x3 is not permitted because of the risk of mixing it up with the attempt, how about a different puzzle?
     
  2. Goosly

    Goosly Member

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    Reading A5b, I'd say no. But what about wearing gloves to keep your hands warm? One could argue that's receiving assistance from an object too :)

    A5b) While inspecting or solving the puzzle, the competitor must not receive assistance from anyone or any object other than the surface (also see Regulation 2i). Penalty: disqualification of the attempt (DNF).
     
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  3. mark49152

    mark49152 Premium Member

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    I wouldn't interpret A5b that way. The warm-up puzzle is not directly assisting with the solve any more than the gloves, your chair, your digested breakfast or the transport that got you to the comp. It could be argued that you might use it for assistance by for example testing out an alg to help you get a better solution, but not if it's a skewb or mega or a non-WCA puzzle, etc. Or maybe a 3x3 with all the stickers removed :)
     
  4. Goosly

    Goosly Member

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    I agree with the gloves and chair, not with the breakfast and transport. A5b starts with "While inspecting or solving". But I never fully understood the point of A5b anyway :D

    Also, I've always wondered if having a 3x3 in front of you while solving a 4x4 would violate A5b, since you could use the 3x3 to know which centers belong where on the 4x4
     
  5. Jaysammey777

    Jaysammey777 Member

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    A5b prohibits the use of using other cubes. This is contact with an object and that is strictly prohibited.

    The 3x3 on the table is okay as long as you don't touch it (this means that you do not have contact with it).
     
  6. mark49152

    mark49152 Premium Member

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    That's not what A5b says. It prohibits "assistance" not "contact". I can have contact with a bottle of water during the memo phase and nobody would claim that is illegal. So the question is whether an object used to exercise the hands and keep them warm is "assisting" the solve.
     
  7. Jaysammey777

    Jaysammey777 Member

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    Yes I would say it is.
    It's delegate discretion on whether or not "assistance" is being received. And if a delegate saw that the water bottle was giving assistance they can DNF the solve, but probably wouldn't. In my opinion using another cube during ANY solve gives assistance and would be DNFed
     
  8. mark49152

    mark49152 Premium Member

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    Are you a delegate?
     
  9. 1973486

    1973486 Member

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    He's a candidate delegate.
     
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  10. mark49152

    mark49152 Premium Member

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    OK. So I did rephrase my question: whether an object used to exercise the hands and keep them warm is "assisting" the solve. If a cube is not legal, what about a single colour cube with no stickers, or a squeeze ball, or anything else that can keep the fingers exercised?

    I ask because at my last MBLD attempt I fumbled 2 of my first 3 cubes, and I suspect that the fact my hands were virtually idle in a cold room for 40 minutes of memo was a factor in that. To my mind, keeping warm should be the norm, and being prevented from doing so would be unfair, not vice versa. So I'm looking for a solution to that problem, not an unfair advantage.
     
  11. Jaysammey777

    Jaysammey777 Member

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    Well, let me ask you.

    Is "using a ball to assist yourself in warming yourself up during the memorization phase of a multiblind attempt" equal to "While inspecting or solving the puzzle, the competitor must not receive assistance from anyone or any object"?

    The rules are not there to make situations unfair for a particular person, but rather they are there to ensure that EVERYONE competing around the world is guaranteed equal and fair treatment.
     
  12. mark49152

    mark49152 Premium Member

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    In my opinion, no, the ball would not be assisting my solve in the sense intended by A5b. As has already been pointed out, you cannot apply that clause literally to every object, like a chair or gloves. That is why discretion applies, and the spirit of the regs is more important than the letter. In my opinion, A5b exists to prevent people from using objects to enhance their memo, or recall algs, or otherwise cheat, and is deliberately broad because you cannot anticipate all of the objects that might be used to cheat. Keeping hands warm isn't cheating.

    But of course my opinion doesn't matter, which is why I'm asking here.
     
  13. cubizh

    cubizh Super Moderator Staff Member

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    A5b) is very clear in this regard.
    As soon as you start the attempt, you shouldn't be able to use any other object.
    Keeping hands warm gloves is ok, as part of your attire can't really be considered a foreign object, but the same can't be said of a cube or a bottle.
    Regarding the water bottle, it can be argued that it does give you assistance in restoring your hydration levels, which can be a factor in keeping your concentration. Same as if you were eating food while you solve, for energy level purposes. It gives you an advantage albeit small.
    I think this rule is also set in place because you can't really (or it's very hard to) name what can be or not acceptable or feasible for a solve in terms of what gives assistance or not, so it's best that everyone has the same conditions.

    However, I don't see why it would not be possible to add something in the future to allow food or drink alone, if an attempt is to have, say at least 30 minutes or more, like what happens in athletics.
     
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  14. mark49152

    mark49152 Premium Member

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    Thanks for the guidance. I guess I will have to stick with gloves and wriggling the fingers.
     
  15. newtonbase

    newtonbase Premium Member

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    Heated cubes, new from the Cubicle premium range. Or stick your hand in your armpit.
     
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  16. cubizh

    cubizh Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Having good organizers that carefully choose a venue and follow 7d+), the specified problem should not exist.
    However, in case it is not followed, at least the temperature should be consistently the same between the entire competition area.
     
  17. AAA

    AAA Member

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    Dec 15, 2016
    I want to go, but to watch not to compete.
     
  18. email the competition organizers?
     
  19. AAA

    AAA Member

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    Dec 15, 2016
    idk if I'm just blind, but I can't find an email on the page.
     

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