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[Help Thread] OLL and PLL Discussion

Discussion in 'Cubing Help & Questions' started by thefullmooner, Dec 28, 2007.

  1. thefullmooner

    thefullmooner Member

    1
    0
    Dec 28, 2007
    Hi Guys,

    2 weeks ago i bought a cube (3x3) now iám learning solving this via fridrich.
    I can solve the F2L but now i'am stuck at the OLL and PLL part of Fridrich.

    I found a couple of sheets with the algorithms from OLL and PLL but eeuh...
    did you guys realy learn this all out of your head?

    I mean i'aint stupid and i can learn things out of my head but both OLL and PLL are like 78 diffirent algs!

    I there some kind of memorization trick?
    How did you guys start to learn this?

    Is there a step in between to reach the goal?
     
  2. andrewvo1324

    andrewvo1324 Guest

    PlainCuber likes this.
  3. Dyste

    Dyste Member

    219
    0
    Oct 2, 2007
    Where you live
    It's easier if you get the cross and then just use one of the 7 OLL cases that have to do with edges already oriented. (found here: http://exocorsair.110mb.com/?page_id=6) You can then use that supposed COLL case from that video (it's actually an A-Perm alg), until you have an U-Perm case. Then, well, perform the U-Perm that applies.
     
  4. Jilvin

    Jilvin Member

    66
    2
    Sep 25, 2007
    First off, learn the 3 Edge orientation and then 7 Corner orientation algorithms before doing anything.


    And instead of trying to learn an algorithm by the algorithm itself, learn it by muscle memory instead.

    The OLL page is LOADED with easy to perform triggers (especially R U R' U')

    So instead of memorizing the full algorithms, you can learn how to perform certain triggers beforehand and then instead of having to memorize something like F (R U R' U') (R U R' U') (R U R' U') F' its just 3 easy triggers in a row with a couple of front face turns at the beginning and end.

    There are a ton of algorithms that fit this (they where designed to, especially at cubewhiz.com)




    And go at your own pace when learning.
     
    PlainCuber likes this.
  5. llamapuzzle

    llamapuzzle Member

    102
    0
    Dec 15, 2007
    WCA:
    2008RATT01
    help fingertricking on one 2 look OLL alg?

    I have a question.

    When you come to the LL on CFOP and there are no edges correctly flipped, I use this alg:

    (F R U R' U' F') U2 (F U R U' R' F')

    I'm wondering if anyone:
    A.Has a better alg or
    B.if anyone has any fingertricks for it.

    This has been slowing down my solves for some reason, so I was wondering if anyone had any ideas. Thanks!
     
  6. tim

    tim Member

    1,692
    2
    Nov 22, 2006
    Karlsruhe, Germany
    WCA:
    2007HABE01
    YouTube:
    cin9247
    Swap the two algorithms and you save one quarter turn :).

    For finger tricks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q787yqgiygg
     
    Farrel abid prasetyo likes this.
  7. Kyle™

    Kyle™ Premium Member

    159
    0
    Jun 27, 2008
    WCA:
    2004ALLA01
    (F R U R' U' F') (f R U R' U' f')
     
  8. llamapuzzle

    llamapuzzle Member

    102
    0
    Dec 15, 2007
    WCA:
    2008RATT01
    Thanks guys! That helped really helped!:D
     
  9. Crzyazn

    Crzyazn Member

    312
    0
    Feb 7, 2008
    Seattle, WA
    what's wrong with

    r' R U R U R' U' r2 R2 U R U' r'
     
  10. blgentry

    blgentry Member

    263
    1
    Apr 10, 2008
    Miami, Florida
    I'm sure I read this somewhere, though I'd like to think that I came up with it on my own...

    For a 2 step OLL, as you describe, with no edges oriented, you can use *any* of the OLLs that have no edges oriented. It will not fully orient the top layer, but it *will* orient all of the edges and that is all you are after. I use #13 from Bob Burton's OLL page here:

    http://www.cubewhiz.com/oll.html

    which is: (R U R' U) (R' F R F') U2 (R' F R F')

    Of course you can use any of 11 through 17 (from his page; his numbering is different than Macky's).

    Brian.
     
  11. Kyle™

    Kyle™ Premium Member

    159
    0
    Jun 27, 2008
    WCA:
    2004ALLA01
    How fast can you do that crzyazn? I can perform mine in about 1.2
     
  12. Crzyazn

    Crzyazn Member

    312
    0
    Feb 7, 2008
    Seattle, WA
    eehh 1.8-2.3

    I guess you're the superior human being :p
     
  13. Statical

    Statical Member

    143
    0
    May 3, 2008
    Singapore
    YouTube:
    xStaticalx
    wow learnt something from this post i didnt know before that u could use those olls with no edges to make all edges oriented
     
  14. genwin

    genwin Member

    132
    0
    Apr 17, 2008
    same here... I'm using Kyle's choice... what is the probability of having no edges oriented??
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2008
  15. tim

    tim Member

    1,692
    2
    Nov 22, 2006
    Karlsruhe, Germany
    WCA:
    2007HABE01
    YouTube:
    cin9247
    1/7? i just guessed ;)
     
  16. MTGjumper

    MTGjumper Member

    2,212
    0
    Jun 21, 2008
    Bath/Notts
    WCA:
    2008CRAW01
    YouTube:
    MTGjumper
    I'm still trying to work out which is best for my fingers whilst I'ms till using 2 step OLL.

    I personally wouldn't use r' R U R U R' U' r2 R2 U R U' r' because it is the OLL for a very rare case (1/216). I prefer OLL 3: r R' U r' U2 r U R' U R2 r' ; I can also do that much quicker.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2008
  17. 1*(2/216)+1*(1/216)+6*(4/216) = 27/216 = 9/72 = 1/8
     
  18. rjohnson_8ball

    rjohnson_8ball Member

    735
    1
    Apr 17, 2008
    Massachusetts, USA
    WCA:
    2009JOHN07
    YouTube:
    rjohnson8ball
    At first I guessed 25% for none, 25% for "L" shape, 25% for "I" shape, 25% for all oriented. But then I looked closer.

    Three edges can be flipped either way, and the orientation of the 4th edge is defined by those 3. So, there are 8 permutations for how the first 3 edges can be flipped: HHH, HHT, HTH, HTT, THH, THT, TTH, TTT. (Here the H and T indicate heads or tails orientation.) Note that only 1 of those 8 represents all oriented and 1 of those 8 represents all unoriented. So,

    Code:
    No edges oriented:    1/8 = 12.5%
    2 edges in "L" shape: 3/8 = 37.5%
    2 edges in "I" shape: 3/8 = 37.5%
    All edges oriented:   1/8 = 12.5%
    
    I assume "L" and "I" shapes have equal probability.

    The "odds" would be 7 to 1 against having all edges unoriented. (7 of the 8 cases have some edges oriented.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2008
  19. hdskull

    hdskull Guest

    I got that STUPID OLL on a 23 second OH solve -_-.

    4 edge: M' U M' U M' U M' U' M' U M' U M' U M' U', lol, learned this from Dennis. Easy to memorize.

    But, F R U R' U' F' f R U R' U' f' is probably the fastest.
     
  20. Lucas Garron

    Lucas Garron Super-Duper Moderator Staff Member

    No need to assume. Compute from your flips as read around U:
    HHH H - 0
    HHT T - L
    HTH T - I
    HTT H - L
    THH T - L
    THT H - I
    TTH H - L
    TTT T - 4

    Code:
    No edges oriented:    1/8 = 12.5%
    2 edges in "L" shape: 4/8 = 50%
    2 edges in "I" shape: 2/8 = 25%
    All edges oriented:   1/8 = 12.5%
    
    Of course, cool people go by symmetries: 4-flip and 0-flip have 4 rotational symmetries of 4 AUFs, so only 1 case. I has 2, L has 1. (This helps reducing headaches for OLL or CLS probs.)

    Actually, I've never considered it before, but maybe it's better to teach FURU'R'F' to beginners than FRUR'U'F'...
     

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