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Magnets thread

Discussion in 'Puzzle Building, Modding, & Designing' started by Rcuber123, Nov 12, 2016.

  1. Dom

    Dom Member

    Cool. That helps tremendously.

    Ok, so my calculations put me at a choice between either a 77% or 87%. If you're saying the distance is slightly greater in the outer layers, then I'll probably go with 87%, which would match up with your 92% from your earlier post (vice 75% from your recent post).
    I'm Splitting hairs here, but I'm glad you already went through this with the WuShuang.

    Here's my plan for my WuShuang, since I prefer extremely strong magnets:
    (Pull force in parentheses)
    Inner - 4x2 N42 (0.76 lb)
    Outer - 4x2 N50 (0.91 lb) paired up with 4x1 N48 (0.42 lb), (which averages out to 0.665 lb)
    That puts the outer layers at 87% of the force of the inner layers. Adding the factor of slightly increased distance in the outer layers, I think it'll drop the force enough to bring that percentage down a little.
     
  2. One Wheel

    One Wheel Member

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    I usually try to get a pull of closer to 0.10 lbs or less, after taking into account distance (it matters mostly for comparing magnets of different dimensions) so those are different numbers than I'm used to working with. Those do sound like very strong magnets, but definitely usable. Good luck! I hope it turns out well for you!
     
    Dom likes this.
  3. DMCubing

    DMCubing Member

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    I used N38 4x1.5 throughout on my Wushuang and thought it felt pretty nice- very nicely balanced.
    IMG_9007.JPG
    Since I'm a noob on 5x5, I sent it to KSCuber to check out and he really liked it. You can hear his thoughts and watch him at the end of my video:
     
  4. mitja

    mitja Member

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    Just done another 5x5 Wushuang( stickerless) magnetisation. my last one was with 4x2 N35 overall, but this one i used 6x1 N48 outside and 4x2N35 inside and I really like it. I also used opposite polarity between outside and inside layers So NS SN, and not NSNS. I noticed that the magnet pull is a bit stronger this way. I also like the 6x1 magnets, they distribute nice even magnetic force on the outer layer. It was hard to get the magnets in corners, but i did it. I wanted to make a good 5BLD cube.
     
  5. guysensei1

    guysensei1 Member

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    Does the diameter of magnets affect the end result of the magnetisation if the magnetic force is the same?

    Example, a weak 6mm diameter magnet vs a strong 2mm diameter magnet, where both magnets have the same attracting force
     
  6. mitja

    mitja Member

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    Well I have Wushuang with 4x2N35 in corners and now with 6x1 N48 in corners. The 4x2 should be stronger, but in reality, 6x1 feels stronger. Maybe because the wider magnet takes over earlier than the 4mm one? Have no idea. Just like the 6mm feeling more.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
  7. Competition Cuber

    Competition Cuber Member

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    Does anyone know what magnets would be good in a yuxin white 2x2? Something for a weak-medium magnetic pull.
     
  8. Duncan Bannon

    Duncan Bannon Member

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    Here
    I think that the wider the magnet the wider the distribution of the magnect force. So the smaller the magnet it appears to be clackier. While a 6x1 will be smoother of a feel. I do believe that the bigger the magnet, the strength feels stronger. I think this is because the field is partly near the core. I could be complety wrong. However that is what I believe is true.
     
    DMCubing likes this.
  9. One Wheel

    One Wheel Member

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    I can't seem to find the video right now, but a while back Chris Tran (@4Chan) made a video talking about how thinner, wider magnets would result in a more fluid feel. I think he said that he thought that the ideal magnets would actually be very thin, very strong magnets in an arc shape, so there would be essentially magnetic tracks all around the cube. This is what I was thinking of when I started experimenting with 6x1 magnets, and strictly anecdotally I think he's right.
     
  10. One Wheel

    One Wheel Member

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    Yep, that's the one I couldn't find. Thanks!
     
  11. DMCubing

    DMCubing Member

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    I use 5x1 magnets a lot in 3x3 cubes (generally the N42 grade, but occasionally I'll use N52, N48, N35, or a combination of these). What I've noticed is you end up having a more constant magnetic attraction without as much a prominent bump or click. So with a magnet that has a lower pullforce strength (say for instance, an N48 5x1 compared to an N35 4x2), you actually end up with almost as much perceived magnetic feel, but gentler bumps. It's like they literally become mushier but you don't lose any of the alignment properties from the weaker magnet, in a way, the alignment properties are improved.

    In bigger cubes, maybe this can be felt more on the outer layers. I'm just now starting to do more experimenting there, so it's going to be fun finding out the effects of wider magnets in those cubes.

    Duncan is right on the money- narrower magnets are more clicky, unless you can move them closer to the core.
     
  12. mitja

    mitja Member

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    @DMCubing why do you prefer NSNS in your 5x5 tutorial. I noticed that NSSN feels different. I like it more.When I assembe the parts i can feel some additional force between two layers(NSSN becomes NSNS across wing).
     
  13. DMCubing

    DMCubing Member

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    But didn't you also change to a 6x1 magnet between the two cubes? It would be interesting to compare two cubes using the same magnets but different layout unless you already have. I'll probably do that but I haven't had a chance yet. My original layout was NSSN (I had even started gluing the pieces that way) but right before doing my tutorial, I decided to simplify it to NSNS. Had I used NSSN in my tutorial, I would have been inundated by messages from people saying they had their magnets glue into each other while trying to glue two in a piece and would either blame me or ask constantly for a solution. I always approach my tutorials with simplicity in mind.
    I actually had an easy way of gluing the two magnets inside the wing- just use a much stronger magnet to attract it for gluing purposes. And when I reconfigured the layout and drew it out, the more I looked at, it seemed to spread the magnets around the cube more evenly, so I stuck with it. I'll probably do an NSSN when I get a chance.
     
  14. One Wheel

    One Wheel Member

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    I've never done 2 magnets in one piece for odd-layered cubes, but I did try 2 different layouts in Yuxin 5x5s. When in your 5x5 video you show the 4 pieces that have magnets in them, I did one so the 2 pairs of pieces were attracted to each other and another that they repelled. I thought the one that repelled was slightly bumpier/snappier. I use a variation on the master magnet technique with fast-drying glue. For each type of piece that gets a magnet I'll glue one pair of magnets (e.g. one corner-wing pair, one wing-midge pair). I'll give the first pairs a few minutes to harden, then separate them and and use each piece as a master piece to glue 2 more pairs, then 4 more pairs, etc.
     
  15. DMCubing

    DMCubing Member

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    Oh, I may have completely misunderstood mitja if we're talking about the layout based on four parts as opposed to three parts. (I had assumed the NSSN with the two opposing magnets in one piece when I replied). Yeah, I'm certain there would have to be some amount of repulsion between the pieces. Hmmm. That would make for a great experiment! This can become an expensive hobby!

    Yeah, I mostly use what I call the helper magnet method. This way if someone is using something other than superglue (like Cubicle's polyurethane-based glue), it'll keep the magnets in place for a while as you make your way through a group of pieces. I get occasional hell because of it sometimes. (Not talking about you). People constantly reminding me there's "a faster way" of doing it, etc. I even had some whipper snapper tell me it takes him only 45 minutes to do an entire 5x5. But I'm certainly not dogmatic with gluing technique, and with fast drying superglue, it may be quicker. Though even with the helper magnet technique, at no point am I not gluing in a magnet- one of these days I'll time the difference between the two while doing a 3x3.
     
  16. Dom

    Dom Member

    @DMCubing yes I am using your video as a guide, but I don't have those exact magnets. I have others that are slightly stronger, and I think the ratio would still be good.

    Thanks for all your great videos!
     
    DMCubing likes this.
  17. mitja

    mitja Member

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    I have meant the 5x5 version layout based on four parts. My technique is to do one set of pair pieces first, by placing all of the magnet pairs without glue. Then move the magnets away from correct spot, apply the glue and move magnets back. That way i don't need to switch from gluing and positioning so many times. It saves time and nerves. I use the 60s loctite gel which dries very slowly for a super glue.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    DMCubing likes this.
  18. Dom

    Dom Member

    *Edit* I think the outer layers are just a LITTLE bit too strong. I plan to replace the outer layers' N50 magnets with 4x2mm N42.

    I magnetized my WuShuang and it's AMAZING!

    Big thanks to @DMCubing for the video on magnet placement and polarity. And big thanks to @One Wheel for helping me with the calculations for what strength the magnets should be and the relation to inner vs outer layer strength.

    Here's what I used:
    (Pull force in parentheses)

    Inner - 4x2 N42 (0.76 lb)
    Outer - 4x2 N50 (0.91 lb) paired up with 4x1 N48 (0.42 lb), (which averages out to 0.665 lb)
    That puts the outer layers at 87% of the force of the inner layers.

    I put the 4x1 magnets in the corners and glued them in using the helper magnet technique. It's thinner, so it fits in there a little better I think. I used Gorilla Glue, which is a polyurethane glue. When it dries, it foams up and can absorb the shock of your magnets getting slammed around in the cube.

    The end result is a heavy cube with very strong magnets. The inner layers stay together very well. I use a lot of M slice algorithms and I have no problem doing them on this 5x5. The ratio of inner layer strength to outer layer strength is excellent. It's s very well balanced cube.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
    DMCubing and One Wheel like this.
  19. dfxer

    dfxer Member

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    Hi!

    Magnetized my stickerless Yuxin Little Magic with N35 4x1.5 (4x1.4/1.35 really). Placed magnets like this:

    1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg

    Result - very, very light magnetization, very weak. No click feeling at all. Only adds a bit stability...and weight ;). I think it is partially because of cube construction itself - contact area of pieces is large, tensioning practically does not helps.

    Does anybody knows the strength of factory GTS2M magnets? I only knows the size - 4x2 4x1.5 (spare magnets which are ships with cube).

    Thank you in advance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018

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