Improvements for M2/R2

Discussion in 'Blindsolving Discussion' started by Stefan, Oct 23, 2007.

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  1. fanwuq

    fanwuq Member

    2,833
    2
    Dec 5, 2007
    WCA:
    2008FANW01
    YouTube:
    fanwuq
    Wouldn't that be FL RB?
    I would do
    L'U'M'FR2F'MFR2F'UL
    It's a bit less efficient, but easier to think about.
    LF RB would be
    L'UM2UR'U'M2URU2'L
     
  2. deadalnix

    deadalnix Member

    560
    2
    Apr 6, 2007
    WCA:
    2008SECH01
    Right !

    For LF RB I do (Which is a Lf Rf case) :

    z'M2URU'M2UR'U'z

    All the Lx Rx case are solved on side. I find this way more finger friendly. But I also mention your solution (L'UM2UR'U'M2URU2'L) in my tutorial (work in progress, not published yet) for an easy transition between M2 and my method.

    It's why I've worked on a case <=> pattern association. It allow you to know which pattern to use very easily, and most of the patterns are very efiscient.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  3. fanwuq

    fanwuq Member

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    Dec 5, 2007
    WCA:
    2008FANW01
    YouTube:
    fanwuq
    I see it now. You are starting the cycle from LF so that it acts like the buffer. Then you set up the edge on R so that it become interchangeable to LF. M turn to shoot LF to R edge, then replace with FD (real buffer). This is getting really similar to BH!
    I don't like to think too much during my BLD solves, so I would still probably do L'UM2UR'U'M2URU2'L in the real situation.
    Edit: Then I will read about your case <=> pattern association.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  4. Haru

    Haru Member

    3
    0
    May 24, 2009
    Here is my method.
    Most cases of shooting to BU (buffer is DF) can be avoided with no algorithm.

    Unless UB is already solved, I locate DF sticker on UB (if it can be done easily) and consider UB piece as "buffer piece".
    In the case where I located DF sticker on UB, I do M2 to exchange DF piece on UB and UB piece in the buffer after all cycles are solved.
    (In odd parity case, this last M2 cancels with the first turn of the parity fix algorithm of M2/R2 method.)

    More specifically,

    1. If DF sticker lies on UB at the beginning, I consider UB as solved.
    2. If DF sticker is in the buffer and UB is not solved yet, I shoot the DF sticker to UB.
    3. If BU sticker is in the buffer and DF sticker does not lie on bad M-slice positions (BU, FU and BD), I break into a new cycle from DF sticker.


    Example of the third case
    Scramble: F' U R S R' S' U' F

    shoot to RF: B' R2 B M2 B' R2 B
    (The UB piece is considered as "buffer piece" to avoid shooting to BU.)
    shoot to BR: U R' U' M2 U R U'
    (break into a new cycle from DF sticker)
    shoot to UB: M2 (shoot DF sticker to UB to "solve" UB)
    shoot to RD: B' R' B M2 B' R B
    shoot to RB: R' B' R B M2 B' R' B R
    exchange DF and UB: M2


    Example of the second case
    Scramble: F M F2 M' F R' D M' D2 M D R

    shoot to UB: M2 (shoot DF sticker to UB)
    shoot to FR: U R U' M2 U R' U' (break into a new cycle)
    shoot to DL: U' L2 U M2 U' L2 U
    shoot to LF: B L2 B' M2 B L2 B'
    shoot to RF: B' R2 B M2 B' R2 B
    exchange DF and UB: M2
     
  5. fanwuq

    fanwuq Member

    2,833
    2
    Dec 5, 2007
    WCA:
    2008FANW01
    YouTube:
    fanwuq
    deadalnix,

    How would you handle cases like FD to UL to UR?
    Would you start with something like an R turn then continue, or something different?

    For example:
    FD to UL to UR
    RU'M'U'R'UMU'RU2R'

    FD to UL to RU
    RU'M'FR2F'MFR2F'UR'

    FD to LU to RU
    UM'U2MU

    What are you planning to do for the BD edge? Setting up to BD with B or D turns work. Maybe an M2 setup to make it FU?
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2009
  6. deadalnix

    deadalnix Member

    560
    2
    Apr 6, 2007
    WCA:
    2008SECH01
    You can set-up using M and then use an MU2M'U2 like alg (or twice if you want to be big cube safe).

    The french version of the tuto is almost finish and I hope i will end the translation during next week.
     
  7. nguyenhoangtuan

    nguyenhoangtuan Member

    1
    0
    May 29, 2009
    hi stefan i'm vietnamese.I want to learn M2 R2 but i don't understand some menthod and arg of M layer.I applied but it was unsuccessful.Can you help me?
     
  8. deadalnix

    deadalnix Member

    560
    2
    Apr 6, 2007
    WCA:
    2008SECH01
    Unfortunaly, I get sick and so I'm a little late on the planed release date.

    But, the french tutorial is now finish, and have juste to be checked and correctd to be released. The translation is comming soon.
     
  9. CT_Warrior

    CT_Warrior Member

    23
    0
    May 11, 2009
    I think I thought of an improvement for DBL. How about doing an L' move to turn it into a FDL case then undoing it with L?
    L for UFL.
    Possibly L2 for BLU.

    I guess it depends on how fast you do the algs. I personally do FDL faster. x_x
    Also, are there any alternative algs for FDL?

    EDIT: I think you can apply this to R layer as long as the two corners you're shooting for aren't both in the R or U layer.
    FRU into LFU via U turn setup, undo at the end of the pair, and etc.

    EDIT2: Some patterns are really good! Example, this pair: UBL FRU, turns into U UBR LFU U'.
    I'm sure there are some bad cases, but I don't think it'll be too hard to learn to recognize it with some preparation.

    For URF cases, using U' will improve all the cases except for ULF/LUF/FLU and maybe ULB which turns into the not so good UFL.

    I'm thinking of the same idea for BDR/DBR/RDB at the moment. RDB would be done with B in the same way as URF.
    Maybe a RUR' or RU'R' trigger might be better in some cases.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009
  10. Marcell

    Marcell Member

    294
    0
    Sep 1, 2007
    WCA:
    2007ENDR01
    1. Of course, you could use only three algs along with L* setup moves for all the corners on the L layer depending on their orientation (actually, a lot of the original R2 algs do this). If you can do the setup, the FDL alg and the setup back than the DBL alg, you should do that.

    2. Don't know, if you don't like Stefan's alg, you can use ACube to find one that you like better, or try the appropriate BH alg with R2 at the end (U2 R2 U2 R D2 R' U2 R D2 R U2 R2 or it's inverse) or at the beginning (R2 U L' U F2 U' L U L' F2 L U2 or it's inverse).

    3. Surely there are some nice patterns, but I think usually you'd lose more time thinking what's going where than when you just do the plain algs as fast as you can.
     
  11. CT_Warrior

    CT_Warrior Member

    23
    0
    May 11, 2009
    Hmm, I'll try those algorithms soon enough, but some of them are pretty easy and save a good amount of time.

    If you have URF and one of the two bottom left corners, then there's not much to think about.

    For the ones that you have to think about, if you had say.. URF and LBU, you could memo it as URF and FLU and take the hint that you have to setup U' and U either by a slight mental note or whatever else you can think of.

    I find it hard to think while solving, but it's not so bad during memo.
     
  12. martijn_cube

    martijn_cube Member

    467
    0
    Feb 26, 2008
    netherlands, Lisse
    WCA:
    2007BAKK02
    YouTube:
    kadettv8
    How far are you with the translation? Or do you have a link to the french version, if there are a couple example solve then any language will help.
     
  13. martijn_cube

    martijn_cube Member

    467
    0
    Feb 26, 2008
    netherlands, Lisse
    WCA:
    2007BAKK02
    YouTube:
    kadettv8
    i tried to do an 'deadalnix' solve. am i doing this the right way?

    Test solve 1: L' B D2 B R2 L2 D' B' D2 U L2 R2 F' L' B L B' U R F2 U2 D2 R2 D2 F

    - (R’U’) M2 (L’BLB’) M2 (BL’B’L) (UR) OR (FR2F’) M’ (ULU’) M ( UL’U’) (FR2F’)
    - (U2) M’ (UL’U’) M (ULU)
    - (U’) M’ (U’RU) M (U’R’U2) OR (L’B’) M2 (B’R2B) M2 (B’R2B2L)
    - (R’B) M2 (U’L2U) M2 (U’L2U) (B’R) OR (U’R2U) M’ (F’L’F) M (F’LF) (U’R2U)
    - (B2) M2 (R’URU’) M2 (UR’U’R) B2
    - (U2) M2 (U’L2U) M2 (U’L2U’)

    It solves the edges, so it works, but is it how it's supposed to be?

    Test solve 2: With the difference between this and normal M2.
    I just counted every move as 1 move.
    Code:
    F2L'U2B2U2L2F'R'UF2D2L'DUB'F'L'RU2B2L2D'R'DB'
    
    ‘Deadalnix’:
    
    -  (U2) M2 (U’L’U) M2 (U’LU’)  			        -  (9)
    -  (U’LU) M2 (U’L’U) M2			                -  (8)	
    -  (U’) M’ (R’F R F’) M (FR’F’R) (U)		        -  (12)
    -  (R’U2) M’ (R’FRF’) M (FR’F’R) (U2R)		        -  (14)
    -  (B) M2 (B’R’B) M2 (B’R)				-  (8)
    - (R’URU’) M2 (UR’U’R)     				-  (9)
    Fix: (U’F2U) M2 (U’F2U)			   	        -  (7)
    Flip:  (M’U’M’U’M’U’M’)U2(M’U’M’U’M’U’M’)	        -  (14)
    Total: 60/81
    
    
    M2:
    
    - U2 M' U2 M'  /  U' L' U M2 U' L U			-  (11)
    - U' L U M2 U' L' U  /  M2			        -  (8)
    -  x' U L' U' M2 U L U' x  /   U R U' M2 U R' U'        -  (14)
    -  U'M')*3 U'M (U'M')*4  /  R' U R U' M2 U R' U' R	-  (25)
    -  l U' R' U M2 U' R U l'  /   x' U' R' U M2 U' R U x	-  (16)
    -  R' U R U' M2 U R' U' R			        -  (9)
    Fix:  (U’F2U) M2 (U’F2U)			        -  (7)
    Flip: (M’U’M’U’M’U’M’)U2(M’U’M’U’M’U’M’)	        -  (14)
    
    Total: 83/104
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2009
  14. martijn_cube

    martijn_cube Member

    467
    0
    Feb 26, 2008
    netherlands, Lisse
    WCA:
    2007BAKK02
    YouTube:
    kadettv8
    Does anybody know a good one for. DF -> BU -> UF?
     
  15. Ellis

    Ellis Member

    1,212
    1
    Sep 23, 2008
    WCA:
    2008HALL02
    I haven't had a chance to read deadalnix's posts, but did you try frederico's yet? x' (U M' U' M) U2 (M U M' U) x
     
  16. martijn_cube

    martijn_cube Member

    467
    0
    Feb 26, 2008
    netherlands, Lisse
    WCA:
    2007BAKK02
    YouTube:
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    Thanks. i hadn't seen it before. it's pretty nice.
     
  17. deadalnix

    deadalnix Member

    560
    2
    Apr 6, 2007
    WCA:
    2008SECH01
    Nice, I use this one :

    DMU'R2'UM'U'R2'UD'
     
  18. deadalnix

    deadalnix Member

    560
    2
    Apr 6, 2007
    WCA:
    2008SECH01
    On this solve, here is the way :

    z'URU'MUR'U'M'z

    U2M'UL'U'MULU

    U'M'U'RUMU'R'U2

    U'R2UM'U'R2UM - break into new cycle

    M2UL2U'MUL2U'M

    RU'R'UM'U'RUr'
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2009
  19. martijn_cube

    martijn_cube Member

    467
    0
    Feb 26, 2008
    netherlands, Lisse
    WCA:
    2007BAKK02
    YouTube:
    kadettv8
    Thanks. now i can study it a bit more. And hopefully understand it better.

    U'MU'RUM'U'R'U2

    U'R2UMU'R2UM'

    I think that with these two the M moves are supposed to be the other way around. first M' and then M. But i didn't really test your version, so maybe i'm wrong.
    So with some move i got it right and with some i did a much longer one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2009
  20. deadalnix

    deadalnix Member

    560
    2
    Apr 6, 2007
    WCA:
    2008SECH01
    Yes, you are right. I have made a mistake.

    My post is edited.
     

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