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Human Thistlethwaite Help/Discussion

Discussion in 'Cubing Help & Questions' started by pistelli, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. pistelli

    pistelli Member

    49
    0
    Sep 18, 2010
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    WCA:
    2011PIST01
    YouTube:
    vincentpistelli
    Hello all,

    Recently I have been interested in learning human thistlethwaite, but the very first step is quite a stumbling block. I know about orienting edges from petrus, but this is quite different and I don't quite understand. Would someone please explain this or make a video explaining this. I'm sure that I'm not the only one with this question.
     
  2. pistelli

    pistelli Member

    49
    0
    Sep 18, 2010
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    WCA:
    2011PIST01
    YouTube:
    vincentpistelli
  3. Marcell

    Marcell Member

    294
    0
    Sep 1, 2007
    WCA:
    2007ENDR01
    Look up the ZZ method. It's first step is called EOLine, which means orienting edges and building a line (DF-DB). You don't need the latter part, but you might find a good description about orienting edges and that's what you need.

    Oh, there it is.
    http://cube.crider.co.uk/zz.php?p=eoline

    Oh yeah, and make sure not to get distarcted by the fact that the Human Thistlethwaite tutorial puts the cube in the <U,D,F,B,R2,L2> group, while the ZZ tutorial puts it in the <U,D,R,L,F2,B2> group.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2010
  4. jiggy

    jiggy Member

    454
    0
    Oct 21, 2009
    London (UK)
    "Bad" edges:

    FRONT/BACK FACE:
    Any top/bottom edges

    TOP/BOTTOM FACE:
    Any front/back edges

    LEFT/RIGHT FACE:
    top/bottom edges in the top or bottom row
    OR
    front/back edges in the front or back row



    To fix bad edges, rotate them to the LEFT/RIGHT face using ONLY <U,D,F,B,R2,L2> moves. Once you have four bad edges on one LEFT/RIGHT face perform an L/R turn to change the four bad edges into good edges.

    If you only have two bad edges remaining, rotate them to UF and UL (for example) and perform (L F' L' F) to fix them.

    This page is quite helpful.


    I <3 HTA!
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2010
  5. pistelli

    pistelli Member

    49
    0
    Sep 18, 2010
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    WCA:
    2011PIST01
    YouTube:
    vincentpistelli
    Do U,D,F, and B turns include there counterclockwise forms?
     
  6. Kynit

    Kynit Member

    298
    0
    Jul 8, 2010
    Yes. Three U turns make a U', three D turns make a D', etc.
     
  7. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    Massive bump ;-)

    But I prefer not to open a new thread with Human Thistlethwaite discussion.
    I think this method deserves more attention and perhaps Stachu's recent 3x3x3 method post will make some people check it out.

    Human Thistlethwaite method as described on Ryan Heise's Site:
    This is the short description without any algs, please check Ryan's site for the more detailled description.

    Phase 1 -> <U,D,L,R,F2,B2> group
    - simple, no algorithms

    Phase 2 -> <U,D,L2,R2,F2,B2> group
    - Direct up/down edges to up/down face (simple, no algs)
    - Direct corners to up/down face (between 8 and 60 algs)

    Phase 3 -> <U2,D2,L2,R2,F2,B2> group
    - Corners (between 1 and 2 algs)
    - Edges (between 1 and 4 algs)

    Phase 4 -> place pieces
    - Corners (intuitive)
    - Edges (intuitive)

    I will post some solves that I did in the "example solve" thread to illustrate the method.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2011
  8. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    Example solve (copied from today's example solve thread, scramble not picked by me)

    Scramble: D2 B' U' D' B' F2 L2 U L2 R F' B' R L B2 D2 R2 L2 U2 F2 B U2 D B2 D

    B' D R L' B' EO 5
    L U2 L top/bottom edges and 4 corners 8
    F' D' F D' F' D2 F orient corners 15
    D2 F2 separate corners 17
    R U' R F2 R' U R' pair up corners 24
    R2 L2 D' L2 R2 fix bad edges 28 (R2 cancels 1 move with previous R')
    U' F2 B2 U2 D2 align stuff 33
    F2 R' L D2 L' R edge cycle 39

    39 HTM Definately my HTA PB regarding movecount

    Alg garron: B' D R L' B'L U2 LF' D' F D' F' D2 FD2 F2 R U' R F2 R' U R'R2 L2 D' L2 R2U' F2 B2 U2 D2F2 R' L D2 L' R
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2011
  9. Hershey

    Hershey Member

    1,235
    2
    Apr 23, 2011
    New Jersey, USA
    WCA:
    2010SHRI02
  10. irontwig

    irontwig Member

    1,754
    11
    Apr 6, 2009
    Sweden
    WCA:
    2010JERN01
    YouTube:
    jernqvist
    That's 40 HTM, but 33 STM :).
     
  11. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    Yeah I know that one but unfortunately there is no response whenn inquiring for the "advanced" alg set...

    You made me doubt myself there...
    I had to count many times, even got to 41 HTM because I counted UD edges as U and D
    I changed that to top / bottom edges and highlighted the cancelling R moves (but leave them in for educational purposes)
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2011
  12. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    Another HTA solve I did in the example solve about two weeks ago:

    D R F2 D F - EO
    L' U' L - edges
    F2 R2 - E Belt (why?)
    L' B L F' L' B' L F - orient corners
    R' B R F' R' B' R F - orient corners
    U F2 U' D2 F2 - separate corners
    B U' B R2 B' U B' - pair up corners
    M2 D' - fix bad edges
    L2 S L2 S'- edge 3 cycle
    R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 - swap 2 pairs of edges
    E L2 E' L2- edge 3 cycle

    ~ 60 HTM

    I hope I wrote down the directions of the S and E moves correctly though.
    Yet another reason to always write in "FMC" mode.

    Basically following the Heise HTA approach but using 2xOLL for orienting corners.
    I think 60 HTM is "fair" for this approach
     
  13. Hershey

    Hershey Member

    1,235
    2
    Apr 23, 2011
    New Jersey, USA
    WCA:
    2010SHRI02
  14. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    here's another nice one:

    fmc.mustcube.net scramble 351:
    U B2 U F2 L R2 B U' D' B2 D L2 B2 F D' F2 L2 F B U2 D L D R' D F D' U' R' B

    F R U' R' B EO 5
    L2 D L Up and Down edges 8
    L' U' L U' L' U2 L Sune OLL 13
    B D B' D B D2 B' Sune OLL 20
    D . L2 separate UD corners 22
    D2 R2 D R2 D2 B2 D B2 D pair up corners 31
    D' B2 undo some moves to check for a nice pos for bad edge fix 29
    L2 B2 L2 B2 L2 D fix bad corners + ADF 35
    R' L B2 L' R D2 edge 3 cycle 41

    41 HTM with cancellations
    F R U' R' B L2 D U' L U' L' U2 L B D B' D B D2 B' D L2 D2 R2 D R2 D2 B2 D L2 B2 L2 B2 L2 D R' L B2 L' R D2

    Not bad for a solve with two OLL's

    EDIT: at . insert edge cycle D2 F' B R2 F B' to cancel 1 move = 40 HTM
    F R U' R' B L2 D U' L U' L' U2 L B D B' D B D2 B' D' F' B R2 F B' L2 D2 R2 D R2 D2 B2 D L2 B2 L2 B2 L2 D
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2011
  15. OMGitsSolved

    OMGitsSolved Member

    620
    0
    Dec 11, 2010
    Chesapeake, VA, Antartica
    WCA:
    2011LONG01
    YouTube:
    OMGitsSolved
    Could using EPOCBL from me and erzz's LBCM method help in a HTA?
     
  16. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    For speed HTA I think your "parity" alg for twisting a single corner on U could be quite usefull.

    For regular HTA style I think large alg sets go somewhat "against the spirit" :)
     
  17. irontwig

    irontwig Member

    1,754
    11
    Apr 6, 2009
    Sweden
    WCA:
    2010JERN01
    YouTube:
    jernqvist
    Just a fun thought: Redux: 2x2x3=>F2L=>OLL Finish: 2x2x3=>F2L=>PLL.
     
  18. Hershey

    Hershey Member

    1,235
    2
    Apr 23, 2011
    New Jersey, USA
    WCA:
    2010SHRI02
    Do robots solve the cube with HTA? If they do solve the cube with this "method", does that mean we are learning how to...
    think like a robot? 0__0
    (Just kidding).

    anyway, what is speed HTA?

    Edit: fail. robots wouldn't solve with Human Thistlethwaite.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2011
  19. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    Just a wild guess: Solving a cube with HTA as fast as you can?
     

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