[Help Thread] How to Get Faster using the Fridrich / CFOP Method

Discussion in 'Cubing Help & Questions' started by pcwiz, Aug 31, 2008.

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  1. JakeL

    JakeL Member

    15
    0
    Jul 7, 2011
    Oh ok. Is it better to be color neutral? Because I mainly use the white side for the cross, but I can start any side. It'll just add a bit to my time.
     
  2. fiftyniner

    fiftyniner Member

    315
    0
    Mar 28, 2011
    Patience. It takes weeks or months.
    Turn slow in your F2L. In your case, very slow. Just because Guhong is easy to turn fast does not mean you should.
    Contrary to what your mind tells you, fast turning in F2L does not equate to fast time.
     
  3. uberCuber

    uberCuber Member

    3,921
    2
    Jun 24, 2010
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    WCA:
    2011THOM01
    For whatever it means, the world record holder is color neutral. However there are many very very fast cubers that are not color neutral.

    The pros and cons of color neutrality, and the general question of "is it better?" is something that cubers debate about quite often; there's really no clear answer.
     
  4. Akash Rupela

    Akash Rupela Member

    472
    1
    May 9, 2011
    New Delhi, India, India
    WCA:
    2012RUPE01
    YouTube:
    akashrupela1
    Jakel, be patient, and practice . In beginning of june, my average was almost the same, i practiced hard for 1 month and got it 25-30 seconds down , practice in an organised manner, and u will benefit
    work on your individual areas cross, f2l, oll, pll. learn finger tricks for last layer and perfect the algorithms, f2l is all about practice
     
  5. JakeL

    JakeL Member

    15
    0
    Jul 7, 2011
    That was the other thing I was wondering about, finger tricks. I've never been great with those. I can turn pretty fast with my hand, but I'm just not very good with finger tricks. I can do front with my index finger, but the rest I do with my hands. Any tips on those?
     
  6. SpacePanda15

    SpacePanda15 Member

    73
    0
    Mar 19, 2011
    Use your index finger for the UP face and your ring finger for the Down face and then use your whole hand for the R and L. For the back either use your index or your ring finger.
     
  7. JakeL

    JakeL Member

    15
    0
    Jul 7, 2011
    Ok thanks! :)
     
  8. Akash Rupela

    Akash Rupela Member

    472
    1
    May 9, 2011
    New Delhi, India, India
    WCA:
    2012RUPE01
    YouTube:
    akashrupela1
    Finger tricks, Search badmephisto's finger trick videos on youtube . he shows some nice fingertricks which can be performed sweetly with practice
    you can see jammyman3014's channel on youtube on how to execute them
    Apart from that , http://www.cubewhiz.com has slow motions videos showing how to execute algorithms(if u choose these ones). LEarn finger tricks for some cases, and with time you will be able to make your fingers friendly to new algorithms on your own :)
     
  9. jskyler91

    jskyler91 Member

    677
    4
    Mar 23, 2011
    Berkeley CA
    YouTube:
    jskyler91
    To the question of color neutrality, consider this: which is quicker a 2 move cross or a 7 move cross? The answer is obvious; the two move cross. If you can do color neutrality properly it can save you 2-3 seconds on the cross and possibly more in the f2l in terms of it being easier to predict/ track your first f2l pair. The problem that most people have with color neutrality, however, is that they learn to solve with only one color and consequently look for specific colors in f2l. This causes them to ignore other colors i.e. yellow pieces, as opposed to looking for f2l pairs. If you can start learning to be color neutral sooner that would be of benefit to you later. With that being said I wouldn't do it quite yet. With your current averages you need to get comfortable with your method and seeing familiar colors will help with that. I would say start switching to color neutrality when you reach about 40 seconds average. Start by doing yellow cross and white as they have the same f2l pairs, then go to blue/green and finally orange/red which will probably be the most difficult to ge used to. It will be weird at first, but after a month or so you will get used to it. I changed when I was averaging 35 and I am now averaging 18-19 and fully color neutral.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2011
  10. Godmil

    Godmil Premium Member

    2,196
    2
    Aug 12, 2010
    Aberdeen, Scotland
    YouTube:
    Godmil
    You're the only person I've ever read who thinks people should wait before learning to be colour neutral. I'd love to know what your reasoning is.
     
  11. Selkie

    Selkie Premium Member

    1,766
    1,194
    Jan 4, 2011
    Devon, UK
    WCA:
    2011WRIG01
    YouTube:
    selkiecubing
    I would agree completely with this. Just watching Breandan's demonstration of his PLLs in the following video gives a great insight into finger tricks, minimal regrips etc. This is one of my favorite videos, I have watched in full or part many, many times and still do. Vid in the spoiler:-

    <iframe width="500" height="300" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fWyjLAiEL9o?vq=hd720&amp;iv_load_policy=3&amp;rel=0&amp;showinfo=0&amp;theme=light&amp;color=white&amp;autohide=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2016
  12. Jorghi

    Jorghi Member

    448
    0
    Jun 9, 2011
    I feel like jskyler91 is learning F2L based upon color recognition, and not pattern recognition by progressing to newer colors that slow.

    :p
     
  13. Akash Rupela

    Akash Rupela Member

    472
    1
    May 9, 2011
    New Delhi, India, India
    WCA:
    2012RUPE01
    YouTube:
    akashrupela1
    Lol dont say anything about Jskyler's skills. Given the time he has been cubing since, his times are super appreciable and only a person with proper understanding of everything and passion can progress like that
     
  14. Cubewarrior

    Cubewarrior Member

    46
    0
    Apr 2, 2011
    Kansas
    WCA:
    2012PERR01
    YouTube:
    Nate Perry
    dude, this is ok. learn full oll and full pll and your times will get ABOUT 15 seconds faster, although i cant say because it depends on you. once you hit sub 45, i find sheer practice and f2l lookhead comes into play. learn to track f2l pieces. also, track cross edges in order to get down to around 6 seconds on the cross with practice. in terms of last layer, learn all the algs here http://www.badmephisto.com/index.php and learn recognition patterns. hope this helps
     
  15. enigmahack

    enigmahack Member

    137
    0
    Sep 18, 2008
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    WCA:
    2009CHAM02
    YouTube:
    enigmahack
    I think something that is important to mention isn't as much about cubing and more about practicing.

    Part of what I do is I (Professionally as a job) is to help people be more effective with learning as well as practice.

    What I'm getting at though is that it's bothersome for me to see people say "Just practice". The reason this is ineffective is because if you practice wrong, you're actually holding yourself back. Classical pianists sometimes "tread water" instead of progressing professionally because they spend so much time playing the same songs over and over and getting really good at those songs, but reinforcing the bad habits they've developed and that holds them back.

    I've talked to a few speedcubers that have a sub 14 average and asked them how they did it, and their initial response was "I just did lots of sovles" but then after a little bit of probing the REAL answer they didn't even realize they were doing:

    They were turning weaknesses into strenghts. The thing that makes people so good so quickly is how fast do you acknowledge these weaknesses, and what do you do to practice and turn these into strengths?

    So to give you a better, more applicable answer:

    Let's break down your solves.

    If you're doing a LBL based solve, you probably have the cross, bottom corners, middle edges, and then a 4LLL (So maybe Edges/Corners, and then PLL Edges/Corners)

    Okay, so general tips or things that you can ask yourself while you're practicing. Like ACTUALLY practicing:

    Cross:
    Is it under 8 turns?
    Am I pushing the cross to the bottom? Do I bring it to the top and then move it to the bottom? Am I being as efficient as I could be? Is it smooth? Am I able to execute it quickly (for me)?

    I think the point here: Identify your weaknesses. If you find you have crosses that are 9-10 moves but you can execute them faster than a cross that is 6 moves, that's OK for now. Just realize that eventually, when you want to get even faster down the road, you'll have to start solving the cross with as few moves as possible *AND* have it be quick.

    Then think about your bottom corners. How fast are your corner placements? Do you know the cases for placing corners and do you have any finger tricks that you can use while you do them? Have you started looking ahead? (While you place one corner, do you ALREADY know where another corner is and do you have already a plan in your head to place it even before you're done placing the first corner?)

    Once you have that, what about your edge placement? Do you know a few algorithms for placing those edges? There's two "main" algorithms for placing edges without killing your corners, but then there are tricks you can use like keyhole that allows you to place corners if your edges are already placed, etc. (I say two main algs but there are WAY more. I just know most people tend to know two or three algs, for LH and RH for edges... Like if your edge is Top Front, and needs to be placed Middle Right... doing U (R U R') U' (F' U F), but then you can also do: Y L U L U L U' L' U' L' Y'. I don't have a cube nearby, so this is just off of my head, but folks please feel free to correct me on those)

    Basically, without walking through everything with you, the point I'm getting at is this:

    Identify the things you're not good at. It's not just enough to solve over and over. You have to actually CRITICALLY think about what you're doing so you can identify if you're doing something either wrong, or not as efficiently as you could.

    Guitarists often think about practicing in their room as "Woodshed" where you practice your scales, arppegios, sweeping and such over and over and over, but if you're doing it wrong, you develop that bad habit. It's WAY harder to fix a bad habit than it is to establish a new, good habit.

    So practice yes. But practice with a goal. Don't just solve all the time. (That doesn't mean it's bad to solve, but when you solve, solve with the intention of implementing a technique you've learned or want to practice using)

    Make your weaknesses your strengths. You have to identify what those weaknesses are first, but that's why we often suggest looking at some of the better cubers and doing direct comparisons. I'm not a great cuber. I regularly get 18 second averages, the occasional 12 or 13 second solve with a personal best single non-lucky solve of 8.89 seconds. On the flip side, I also get 27 second solves, and I get REALLY bad cases where I freeze up with the cross and just can't get it in under 8 moves and my cross execution is horrible.

    I frequently watch cubers though that are better than I am, and see what they're doing that I'm not and I try and adapt that to me to see if I can take a technique that works for them and make it my own.

    That's why people take things like music lessons. You have someone who knows the "right" technique (Or the technique that has been widely accepted as being the most efficient) and tries to get you to adapt your own personal traits to match those that are "correct".

    There's a large part of it that will be adaptation, (Making it your own), but the sooner you can start practicing properly, the faster you will get faster.

    I look at Feliks Zemdegs, and only 2 years ago, he and I had the same averages as myself.

    In two years, he's become EXTREMELY fast. *duh lol*

    The thing I ask myself: What is it that he's doing that I'm not. Well, there's a lot of things, and some of it is time, but I GUARANTEE if you were to look at his abilities from when he was younger and back in early 2009 when he was getting 23 second solves... and see his "practice" routine, it would be working on things he knows he's weak at.
    For myself however, I am almost 30 years old, and have a full time job, a home studio for music, a girlfriend, a house to take care of, and I travel for work a lot so I don't have the time to be able to commit to making my weaknesses my strengths. That being said, I have still been improving, just very slowly.

    If you wanted to know about a specific practice schedule, something that I know is efficient and isn't specific to just cubing, send me over a PM though - again I do this professionally for adults with very short learning timelines, so while I might not be able to give you very very cubing-specific fixes for your technique (Which is something you should be doing on your own anyway) I can give you tips and tricks for being more effective WHEN you do practice :)

    Also, look at this thread:

    http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?27870-How-to-practice.

    There are a LOT of very good points made here, and would be a great "mini cubing-practice bible" to follow.

    The rest is being consistent. Consistently practice a new technique, and use it even if you don't want to. Eventually it will become yours but be patient. Don't expect it to work right away. Expect that you'll have to adapt it to your own style but it will happen eventually. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2011
  16. Vinny

    Vinny Member

    880
    0
    Dec 31, 2010
    It's a Jersey thing
    WCA:
    2011VECC01
    YouTube:
    partylikeaturtle
    6 seconds for a cross!?
     
  17. enigmahack

    enigmahack Member

    137
    0
    Sep 18, 2008
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    WCA:
    2009CHAM02
    YouTube:
    enigmahack
    Why not? He currently solves in around 60 seconds I think he mentioned. 6 seconds for a cross isn't unreasonable for HIM. Sure, with practice it will get faster, but that seems slow to you... but what's slow to you (having a 15 second average of 10) isn't always slow to everyone else :)
     
  18. Akash Rupela

    Akash Rupela Member

    472
    1
    May 9, 2011
    New Delhi, India, India
    WCA:
    2012RUPE01
    YouTube:
    akashrupela1
    Enigmahack, Very nice article, i am pretty new to cubing but i always used to have the same questions, what can practice alone do? It did take me from 60 to 35 or something, but just practice is obviously not enough. Thanks, you gave me a lot of answers
     
  19. If you become as fast being color neutral as being an opposite color neutral or 1 color solver, you have a higher chance of getting an easier cross every solve. What if you notice Blue cross has an easy x-cross, but you are only good with white? That sucks... Oh well... better stay with white cross :( meep meep.

    But if you were color neutral, you could take advantage of the scramble and potentially have a faster solve. The practicality issue comes up because it takes more time to get your eyes adjusted to a more varied color scheme every solve. In the long run, it is beneficial. I'm on my way to being color neutral (can solve with all colors average 30 sec at least) It feels good...
     
  20. jskyler91

    jskyler91 Member

    677
    4
    Mar 23, 2011
    Berkeley CA
    YouTube:
    jskyler91
    My reasoning is that if he attempts to learn to be color neutral before he is comfortable with his method, he will be frustratingly slow and very likely to give up. He needs to practice his f2l and begin to understand/ perfect it before he tries to do it with other colors.

    To Joghi 's "I feel like jskyler91 is learning F2L based upon color recognition, and not pattern recognition by progressing to newer colors that slow."

    :p"

    I would have to say that you have it exactly opposite, I do f2l by patterns as I explicitly said in my statement above.

    And to Ahash, thank you.

    I am not sure how to multiqoute btw......
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011

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