# How long until PLL will pay off?

Discussion in 'Cubing Help & Questions' started by Eleredo, Mar 24, 2012.

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1. ### EleredoMember

227
0
Jun 20, 2010
Belgium
Learned full PLL a week ago, but the times I'm getting now are seriously pissing me off to NO END.

Times I get with 2-look PLL:

28.78, 25.36, 21.66, 23.73, 23.12, 25.28, 28.46, 24.61, 24.59, 22.45, 25.07, 27.26, 27.09, 26.45, 24.52, 24.66, 24.46, 25.11, 26.64, 28.18, 21.30, 28.71, 23.36, 22.56, 24.72, 21.39, 25.20, 23.54, 23.81, 30.40, 26.91, 23.27, 21.63, 24.13, 23.79, 20.75, 25.57, 20.02, 28.40, 22.78, 25.23, 17.66, 19.46, 24.18, 22.62, 22.47, 19.33, 20.69, 24.61, 21.23, 22.46, 28.21, 25.01, 24.45, 27.90, 22.31, 23.94, 25.69, 24.18, 21.14, 22.43, 23.28, 20.72, 22.88, 27.52, 24.22, 24.70, 20.39, 21.08, 24.21, 24.42, 20.00, 19.76, 22.53, 22.53, 22.43, 20.38, 24.16, 20.67, 24.27, 23.94, 19.82, 22.82, 23.42, 22.70, 23.65, 24.02, 23.06, 22.74, 23.89, 27.93, 22.43, 19.36, 25.97, 22.94, 23.73, 19.41, 27.02, 23.91, 20.23

Times I get with 1-look PLL:

25.92, 21.14, 35.85, 22.42, 24.66, 24.64, 26.51, 26.80, 25.47, 24.93, 24.91, 27.67, 30.18, 32.89, 23.74, 23.90, 22.53, 23.95, 31.03, 27.95, 31.74, 24.94, 22.78, 39.15, 35.33, 25.55, 21.74, 35.28, 29.36, 25.36, 34.19, 26.22, 24.77, 36.31, 22.82, 25.55, 42.09, 23.60, 26.86, 27.49, 36.57, 40.83

Check the 40+'s causes by R(b) and G-perms. :fp

How long does it take on average until it starts to pay off? I hope not too long, cause the temptation to just switch back to 2LPLL is growing with the minute.

2. ### a small kittenMember

1,627
10
Jul 21, 2008
WCA:
2010YUPH01
asmallkitten
There's no set time for the "pay off". It depends on how much you practice. Your times will stabilize when you get used to the PLLs you just learned. Almost everybody is the same. Newer algorithms take time to incorporate into your regular solving. Full PLL is worth it in the long run.

Just be careful with how many you learn a day. You can overwhelm yourself if you do too much. When I learned PLL for the first time, I learned 1 every day/two days.

3. ### Noahahablindmod

Dec 19, 2011
CT
WCA:
2012ARTH01
NoahCubes
It should pay off in a week or two. Just get comfortable with the algs. Make sure you're recognizing cases using blocks of pieces. Watch badmephisto's PLL recognition tutorial. If you don't know what I mean.

4. ### MWilsonMember

288
1
Mar 19, 2011
When you get faster with it. What other answer is there? 1-look PLL is simply better, you just need to keep at it. What is causing the problem the most, recognition or turn speed?

5. ### TheMachangaMember

Jun 26, 2009
Chicago, Illinois
WCA:
2010LECH01
TheMachanga
Definitely don't switch back to 2LPLL. How long did it take you to learn full PLL? It personally took me a very long time because I would only learn a new algorithm after I fully learned the old one, which means when it comes up, it's just second nature solving it. So, about a week between algorithms. You might have learned them too fast. Are you pausing between OLL and PLL, and having trouble recognizing cases? Also, you're probably not used to preforming the algs very fast, since you only finished learning them a week ago. Just practice more. Be confident with each one. What I like to do is just repeat the same alg over and over again without looking in a continuous cycle with the cube, to make sure my fingers memorize it.

6. ### EleredoMember

227
0
Jun 20, 2010
Belgium
Thanks for the replies!

Learned 1 a day for the most part, with the exception of the G-perms which I all learned in 1 day.

That may be a great idea. I kind of made my own recognition system so I may want to take a look at it.

Knowing which algorithm to perform is the main problem.

It took me 11 days. I only had 14 to learn (already knew 7). I'm pausing between OLL and PLL indeed.

7. ### NaeosPsyMember

238
0
Dec 19, 2010
Latvia
WCA:
2011DREI01
Just practice, do solves, learn how to do those PLL's fast, and it will pay off. You just can't get good times with 2-look PLL.

8. ### MostEdMember

423
0
May 21, 2011
St. Petersburg Russia
WCA:
2012BETA01
MostED13
Yep Practice pays off
actually you can! sub10 with 4LLL was done by Faz once.

9. ### NaeosPsyMember

238
0
Dec 19, 2010
Latvia
WCA:
2011DREI01
I'm pretty sure that was 3 LLL

10. ### aronpmMember

Sep 9, 2009
So? The extra time of doing an additional PLL alg wouldn't make it impossible for him to do sub10.

11. ### Ninja StormMember

1,753
13
Oct 7, 2011
Maryland
WCA:
2012ELLI01
crazyninja300
Well, it took me about three months to finally finish PLL(laziness and school plays factors xP), but after those three months, I was completely set. I'd suggest do an average of 100 every day for a week, then you'll be fine

...My friends at school say I practice too much.

12. ### drewsopchakMember

876
0
Apr 22, 2010
Central Upstate New York
WCA:
2010SOPC01
sebucwerd
Just do 50-100 solves a day. In a week, you'll be around 25-22 avg and you'll recognize plls.

13. ### RanzhaFriendly, NeighbourhoodlyStaff Member

Recognition is one of the more difficult aspects of learning PLL, but perhaps some of your algorithms aren't particularly fast. Have you tried looking at different algorithms for any of the slower algorithms cases you may be currently using?

14. ### drewsopchakMember

876
0
Apr 22, 2010
Central Upstate New York
WCA:
2010SOPC01
sebucwerd
I found recognition natural once I learned an alg.

15. ### fastcubesolverMember

268
0
Sep 19, 2009
WCA:
2010DONA01
1fastcubesolver
definitely stick with 2LLL. It will pay off eventually.

16. ### Robocopter87Member

220
0
Dec 2, 2010
New York
WCA:
2013KUNK01
You see, this kind of thing is what I don't get about people.

"Why am I not faster?"
"Why I can't I turn as quickly?"
"Why does my LL take so long?"
"Why does my F2L take so long?"

Seriously, its like me working out one day and asking why I can't lift a thousand pounds.

Cmon. It doesn't happen overnight. Be real. Its like everything else in this world, you get as much out of it as you put into it. If you stick with it it'll be better, faster. If you don't practice or learn, you'll get slower.

17. ### jeff081692Member

533
1
Aug 14, 2007
Chicago,IL
WCA:
2012JAME03
jeff081692
Why should it matter how long it takes for you to pass your 2L PLL times if 1L is faster? Unless you have a competition coming up it shouldn't matter because this is like an investment. You put in time to get better at something even though you get a little worse knowing that in the end you will be faster than what was possible with 2L PLL. How long this process takes is different for everybody. Some people will catch on quick but some will take a little longer. However, someone who takes longer and suffers for a little while with worse times will end up a faster cuber than someone who goes back to what they are comfortable with. So it's your choice, I understand that it sucks to have averages worse than what you are capable of but you have to see the bigger picture and ignore how long it will take if you want to see results.

Apr 23, 2006
Kearny, NJ, USA
WCA:
2003BURT01
I never had a 2L PLL. However my times went up when I first cleared pll and dropped over the next couple weeks. Generally I learned two per day and spent the next day making sure I could recognize and execute. It took me 3 weeks to learn full PLL. Unfortunately I was taking orgo that semester and practiced and learned algs instead of learning chemistry.

19. ### Robocopter87Member

220
0
Dec 2, 2010
New York
WCA:
2013KUNK01
Yeah, I never learned 2ll Pll either. I went straight through them and then knew 1 look.

20. ### aznanimedudeMember

666
0
Feb 23, 2012
learning PLLs is good but if it takes you a bit of time still to recognize the cases and then that slight pause to jog your memory of which to do can cancel out some of the time you might cut by having 1 less look on LL, so i feel it's just practicing solves alot and just practicing getting faster in recognition

also could be the algorithms you use, some are better than others, or you just need to drill them more for faster execution