Cross memo tehniques?

Discussion in 'General Speedcubing Discussion' started by Zarxrax, Feb 19, 2012.

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  1. Zarxrax

    Zarxrax Member

    1,232
    0
    Jan 7, 2009
    North Carolina
    I've been cubing for several years now, and the cross is still one of the most difficult points for me. In particular, I have a lot of trouble remembering all of the moves that I need to make in order to fully solve it. So usually I just end up memorizing about 2 pieces and then solving the rest as I see it.

    Everyone says to just keep practicing it, but as I said, I have been cubing for years now, and I'm just not getting any better at my crosses.

    For blind solving, everyone has special memorization methods that they use, so I was thinking, why not use something like that for the cross as well?
    Does anyone actually use any sort of special technique for remembering the cross, or does everyone just do visual memo?

    What might be an effective method for cross memorization?
     
  2. JasonLee

    JasonLee Member

    8
    0
    Feb 11, 2012
    Lanzhou,China
    WCA:
    2010JIAL01
    I think you need to reduce the moves, all the cross can be done in eight moves, special technique is not necessary.How many moves do you need to do the cross?
     
  3. pi.cubed

    pi.cubed Member

    160
    0
    Nov 20, 2010
    Sydney, Australia
    I think a fair few people (including myself) just look at the cross pieces and think about where they need to go. I just think 'So I can bring this piece down here and move this one over here so it can be flipped'. It's difficult to explain, but I find that if you think about how you're going to do it you just remember it.
    What do you currently do? When you say "remembering all the moves" do you mean you try to remember R' D2 F B' U2 L or something like that? I have tried that previously and I couldn't get it work. I don't think many people do that.
    But yeah, I personally just think about where they need to go. I just did some solves trying to work out what I do but it's just too hard to explain properly.

    This may not help but oh well.
     
  4. Zarxrax

    Zarxrax Member

    1,232
    0
    Jan 7, 2009
    North Carolina
    Well, I also usually think of it as looking at "where they need to go". Its just that I usually have trouble visualizing it through the entire cross solve. And even if I am able to remember the whole thing, my execution tends to be rather slow because I'm having to think about it as I execute it.
    My crosses are usually not optimal, but I am pretty good at making them 8 moves or less.
     
  5. JianhanC

    JianhanC Member

    1,472
    0
    Jan 1, 2011
    WCA:
    2010CHOO02
    Seriously, I used to have cross problems too, but it just improved the more I solved. Now I can make the cross without much thought. Just practise and reduce move count.
     
  6. JasonLee

    JasonLee Member

    8
    0
    Feb 11, 2012
    Lanzhou,China
    WCA:
    2010JIAL01
    I usually remember all moves, but don't use letters. I do a little "simulation" in my head, like which finger move which layer. My way is to remember how my fingers move, then do the cross.
     
  7. 5BLD

    5BLD Member

    3,180
    5
    Apr 14, 2011
    England
    WCA:
    2011LAUA01
    YouTube:
    5BLD
    The trick is not to remember the move sequence, but remember how the cross comes together.
     
  8. MWilson

    MWilson Member

    288
    1
    Mar 19, 2011
    This sounds like your problem, at least it was for me back then. You won't get better at solving all four pieces fluidly if you don't practice just that. Don't worry about doing well, just do it.

    Force yourself to do 20 crosses a day where you take as long as you need to figuring it out without making any "preview" turns. Have it all in your head, figure out your finger tricks in your head so you can "feel" it before you do it, and then do it in one motion. Make that motion slow enough that you can go smoothly. Also, do not look at the cube when you do it. Don't bother timing it or even finishing the solve. You can practice cross->F2L much more quickly and effectively once your cross is practically subconscious.

    It's hard and honestly I remember it feeling bad, like my brain couldn't handle it. Just remind yourself that it's that feeling that means you'll improve if you keep at it. Also, don't expect drastic improvement in a short time. Force yourself to do it that 20 (or whatever) crosses a day for at least two weeks before worrying about it.
     
  9. speedpicker

    speedpicker Member

    184
    1
    Jul 3, 2011
    Wales
    Thanks for a really great post there Dominate, that certainly clarified matters for me. However it does beg the question, what about learning to reduce move count? I have found that I can solve the cross BLD 9 times out of 10, but sometimes my move number is way too high. I have spent some time giong through reconstructions of top speedsolves and find a lot of use of wide turns, Ms and similar techniques that make me go "I'd have never thought of that".

    I find I rely on a number of mini algs, basically those on cubefreak ( http://cubefreak.net/speed/cfop/cross.php ) and R u R' u' and R' u R' u' when necessary.

    So now we have a handle on how to train ourselves to plan the cross thoroughly, how can I then do this more efficiently?
     
  10. Zarxrax

    Zarxrax Member

    1,232
    0
    Jan 7, 2009
    North Carolina
    Yes, while it is usually not too hard to get a cross under 8 moves, sometimes there is just a really difficult cross, like: D L D L2 U2 L U D F2 L B2 F L D' L2 U2 F2 U F' B2 R' L' F L R
    (scramble with white on bottom, green on front, solve for white cross)
    Scrambles like this are killers. It took me 11 moves to solve, and there was NO WAY that I could plan out the whole thing before starting.
    When trying to solve this in a low number of moves, what kind of things would I be looking for? What types of strategy do you approach with?
     
  11. PandaCuber

    PandaCuber Member

    1,693
    2
    Jun 24, 2011
    Uruguay
    YouTube:
    brusinque
    Using that scramble , White top, Green front
    x2 L' F2 R2 B2 D2 . 5 Moves.

    What I do is look for pieces that can be solved with an F2 type movement <B2, R2, L2,>. Those moves are easy to see and remember. Then the 'harder' edges need to be 'flipped' because they cannot be solved with an F2 movement.
    For example: Scramble: F' R U R' F
    The piece in FR needs to be 'flipped' because you cannot solve the cross with F. Something you can do is <u F' u'>
    Another trick is by solving the cross, but not having it solved in the correct place. As an example, look at the first solve I provided. As you can see in the end, I did an <D2>. To put the cross where it needs to go.

    I think that you have to first find the most efficient cross in order to make memo easier. IMO.
    I hope you understood me. If not. Heree.
     
  12. Zarxrax

    Zarxrax Member

    1,232
    0
    Jan 7, 2009
    North Carolina
    You scrambled it upside down from the way I did, and it made it the easiest cross ever :p
    Try it with white on bottom.
     
  13. PandaCuber

    PandaCuber Member

    1,693
    2
    Jun 24, 2011
    Uruguay
    YouTube:
    brusinque
    B2 D F R L B D'
     
  14. Zarxrax

    Zarxrax Member

    1,232
    0
    Jan 7, 2009
    North Carolina
    Very nice. What is the thought process for something like that? I never could have seen such a solution.
    I never would have considered to start with the B2, because after doing that move, the cube doesn't seem any closer to being solved, so right away, I would have started down a different path.
     
  15. PandaCuber

    PandaCuber Member

    1,693
    2
    Jun 24, 2011
    Uruguay
    YouTube:
    brusinque
    B2 was for green. For easier insert.
    D. Because if you inserted green like that, the rest would be helll.
    Then you insert the rest, but being careful not to insert the wrong edges.
    Thats why F was first, instead of R for the green.
    Then D' to place cross in correct position.

    Im sure the pros have a better thought proccess or more efficient cross or maybe even xcross
     
  16. irontwig

    irontwig Member

    1,754
    9
    Apr 6, 2009
    Sweden
    WCA:
    2010JERN01
    YouTube:
    jernqvist
    y' L F R L B L' D' L y U2 R2
     
  17. MWilson

    MWilson Member

    288
    1
    Mar 19, 2011
    B R2 L B' L' D B2 R would be better for finger tricks I think.
     
  18. irontwig

    irontwig Member

    1,754
    9
    Apr 6, 2009
    Sweden
    WCA:
    2010JERN01
    YouTube:
    jernqvist
    Maybe, nice and efficient nevertheless.
     
  19. A Leman

    A Leman Member

    631
    1
    Jan 22, 2012
    New Jersey
    Pandacuber gave the best white cross but, not neccesarily the best cross. If you solve cubes color neutrally, you almost always find better crosses to use. After scrambling the cube, I liked the orange and blue crosses(the orange one is quick and simple, but with blue, I planned a double extended cross). Furthermore they seem more fingertrick friendly. I am defidently not a pro at crosses, but this is what I got.
    orange: pre-orient y2 x' then L U L E X' D
    blue: pre-oient x y then (u L u') R2 U' (R U2 R') u2 F2
    If you use your full inspection time you can plan out the blue extended cross and protect a pair. Then while you solve it, you can track the blue-orange yellow corner which would make the f2l (U R' U' R2 U2 R' U R U R') and then you're almost done with the solve.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  20. oll+phase+sync

    oll+phase+sync Member

    361
    0
    Oct 1, 2010
    F D2 L' U R' F u R'
    My "cross pcrocess" is not so elaborated (efficent), but in general
    - Solve some edges
    - look if there is a super easily solved next edge
    - look if I can insert some moves to get a super easily solved next edge
    - be unlucky - think harder ... :)
    - repeat


    a) Look for an easy two-edges-solve FD2L'
    b) check if a setup move or inserted move could have positioned other edges even better - but I didnt see any herer.
    c) UR'F solve third edge and gets the last edge in a good position ( out of the D-Layer)
    d) Finish it uR' (normaly im too lazy to remeber this moves)

    All solutions wich have "inserted setup moves" are quit hard to understand if you just follow the sequence from start to end.
     

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