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[Help Thread] Color Neutral Transition Thread

Discussion in 'Cubing Help & Questions' started by jskyler91, Jan 17, 2012.

  1. jskyler91

    jskyler91 Member

    677
    8
    Mar 23, 2011
    Berkeley CA
    YouTube:
    jskyler91
    In search of a thread where you can get some tips on how to become color neutral or simply discuss your triumphs and failures at making the transition? Well you have come to the right place!!!

    To keep this thread productive and useful, here are a few guidelines as to how this thread should look:

    What this thread IS:

    - A place to discuss possible methods for transitioning to Color Neutrality
    - A place to post videos and/or personal logs on how your transition is going
    - A place to give your experiences on said transition
    - A place to learn how to become Color Neutral and more importantly, how NOT to become Color Neutral

    What this thread is NOT:

    - This thread is NOT a place to discuss reasons to or not to change to Color Neutrality (for a thread of this nature please see Kirjava's insightful Color Neutral Deliberation Thread: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?34587-Colour-Neutral-Deliberation)
    - This thread is NOT a place to bash Color Neutrality or Color Fixedness
    - This thread is NOT a place to attack other people's ideas or contributions (everyone should feel free to speak their mind without fear of flaming)

    My hope is that we can make this thread a place where anyone who is wishing to or currently in the progress of transitioning to Color Neutrality can post their results and discuss what they did right and what they might have done differently.

    With these guidelines in mind, I would like to open up this thread with a discussion of how to transition to Color Neutrality and in particular what method(s) those of you who have made the transition used to do it. Those of you who have tried to make this transition and failed, should also list your method(s) as well so that we can learn from your hard work. Please make sure to list how long you tried your method and what exactly your method consisted of. Those who are currently making the transition can feel free to chime in and give tips whenever. Those who are Bicolor neutral should also feel free to give input as well.

    I hope you guys make good use of this thread.

    I will start off:

    My method for transitioning to color neutrality can be found here: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?34655-My-Tips-for-Becoming-Color-Neutral
    In short, my method required not using my normal color for an entire month and switching to a new color every 5 days trying to develop the 3 color filters required for a good Color Neutral lookahead. One of the biggest challenges of my method was simply sticking to it; it can be very tempting to switch back to what is comfortable. Also, I found that learning the Red and Orange color scheme to be extra difficult and actually spent around a week on each of those color to get comfortable with them. If I had to give some tips they would be to stick through it and do a great deal of deep cross planning where you try to plan out at least your cross and first pair if not more. This will help your mind to start adjusting to the different colors more rapidly. I made this transition in about a month.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  2. Jaycee

    Jaycee Member

    1,844
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    Jul 17, 2011
    Crestwood, Illinois
    YouTube:
    Jayceeblaster
    I tried going CN and got slower overall. Of course this makes sense. But I decided I like the feeling of being sub-20 too much. So really, I gained some and I lost some because even though I got a second slower on average, I'm W/Y color neutral and I'm deciding to stay that way. CFOP, BTW.
     
    Agguzi likes this.
  3. PandaCuber

    PandaCuber Member

    1,691
    3
    Jun 24, 2011
    Uruguay
    YouTube:
    brusinque
    Here is my first video on the Road to Color Neutrality.


    I will be making another one shortly, since I am finishing up with blue.

    -
    Well so far, one HUGE problem Ive been having is finding those color patterns. Like, it takes my brain time to process the pattern, comparing it to what ive seen before than boom its solved, while my head is tackling the next pattern.

    But from all that thinking, my lookahead has gotten better. And so has my predictions for CMLL and EO.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2016
  4. Riley

    Riley Member

    1,303
    1
    May 14, 2011
    California
    WCA:
    2007WOOR01
    YouTube:
    mylifeisriley
    I tried becoming color neutral for about 2 weeks, but I got much slower on my original color, so I gave up. I was rolling a 1x1 to pick the color of what color to solve, reaching sub 20 with it. (Back then I averaged 16s for regular cross) I was reading some thread of CN, and someone said to become CN, you shouldn't start with a planned color (like what I was doing). Your method more calls for always start with the same color, and then go to another color later. So yea, I think I'm going try to use your method right after Berkeley Fall 2011, because I don't want to get slower again.
     
  5. TheMachanga

    TheMachanga Member

    1,440
    8
    Jun 26, 2009
    Chicago, Illinois
    WCA:
    2010LECH01
    YouTube:
    TheMachanga
    Tip: CN people recognize pairs not by colors really (like, specifically looking for green, and thinking green or something), but shades....it's hard to explain. The closest I can describe it as is like doing CLL on 2x2. Most people are CN at that. That's why most of us CN solvers have trouble remember what cross they did the solve before, because we're not thinking "green green green, ok, now green yellow edge where is that" or something.

    Just thought I'd throw that out there.
     
  6. jskyler91

    jskyler91 Member

    677
    8
    Mar 23, 2011
    Berkeley CA
    YouTube:
    jskyler91
    Cool, I forgot to say that white yellow CN was also to be discussed here.. How where you going about transitioning and how long did you try?
     
  7. Petezorzz

    Petezorzz Member

    260
    0
    Sep 24, 2011
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    WCA:
    2011NGUY20
    YouTube:
    azncubin
    I am currently transitioning. At the moment, I'm in the middle of green which I think I have 1 or 2 days left of. (Using jskyler91 video)
    What I do to make it easier for me is; I think of the opposite colour of my cross.
    eg. I am doing green, so I think to myself not to look for pieces with blue on them.

    Helps me quite a bit :)
     
  8. Mollerz

    Mollerz Swag Overlord

    1,203
    44
    May 17, 2011
    Surrey, England
    WCA:
    2011MOLL01
    YouTube:
    CalciumIRL
    I never really thought about this before, because I've been Colour Neutral since I started practically. I never consider what colour I am ever solving. I apparently just have the colour scheme totally engrained into my mind. Once I pick my cross I just solve, I know exactly what pieces I am looking for, I don't particularly filter any other colour, I just know... If you give me a solve, let me solve it, if I wasn't asked beforehand to remember the colour I did my last layer on, or what colour I did my cross on, I absolutely wouldn't know upon completion of the solve if I were then asked. Actually trying to remember my cross colour actually hinders my solve.
     
  9. Noahaha

    Noahaha blindmod

    3,015
    31
    Dec 19, 2011
    CT
    WCA:
    2012ARTH01
    YouTube:
    NoahCubes
    I love being CN at Petrus, and always wondered why anyone wasn't color neutral, but then I started working on other methods and I realized the difficulties. In Roux, for example, I found that I really need to think about what the colors of the second 2x2x3 are going to be because sometimes I end up making the wrong one due to mislocated centers. I obviously always use the same EOline in ZZ, but I'm wondering if that will affect my Petrus CN. Any thoughts?

    I feel like Petrus is the easiest method to be CN with because of the necessity for an optimal 2x2x2 block, and because it's easy to use lookahead to find specific colors, not necessarily specific pieces. For example, while I'm solving the 2x2x2 block, I'm thinking about the colors I'll need to expand, and while I'm finishing the 2x2x3, I'm already Idenifying bad edges since I only need to look for two colors.

    Those are my thoughts anyway...
     
  10. tasguitar7

    tasguitar7 Member

    111
    0
    Nov 13, 2011
    Wichita, Kansas
    Well it's significantly easier to be CN if you start that way, I use Roux, and I am not CN with Roux, but I am 2/3 CN (If thats a thing) with CFOP (I started with Green, Blue came naturally, since everyone else does White I learned it too, and Yellow came. I fail at Orange and Red). I can't imagine someone being CN with ZZ, the cool thing though is that if they were, the most amazing part of the solve would be the inspection for EOline. Petrus was intended to be color neutral however to my knowledge the other big 4 methods generally didn't have this in mind during conception.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  11. Noahaha

    Noahaha blindmod

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    Dec 19, 2011
    CT
    WCA:
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    NoahCubes
    Other 4? Although I am not experienced with Waterman, it would seem important to be CN in order to find good first layers. I did dabble with ortega 3x3 when I first started, and I found it useful to do the first step (making all the corners of a side the same color) in the fewest possible moves by finding the best side.
     
  12. tasguitar7

    tasguitar7 Member

    111
    0
    Nov 13, 2011
    Wichita, Kansas
    the "big 4" cubing methods are CFOP, Roux, ZZ, and Petrus.

    Also, as a method to become CN, I saw an old Thrawst video where he said roll a 1x1x1 or a die with colors assigned to the numbers and force yourself to start with whatever cross/block/whatever-you-use it lands on. Never tried it but I think it's what he said he used to become CN.
     
  13. Noahaha

    Noahaha blindmod

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    31
    Dec 19, 2011
    CT
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    2012ARTH01
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    NoahCubes
    I understand this. I thought you were talking about the 4 other than Petrus, of which I didn't agree that Waterman was not meant to be a CN method. Sorry for the ambiguity.

    EDIT: *facepalm* I read "the other 4 big" not "the other big 4" my bad.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  14. JasonK

    JasonK Premium Member

    1,335
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    Oct 31, 2010
    Melbourne, AUS
    WCA:
    2011KILB01
    AFAIK Thrawst was always CN. Also, the 1x1 method is kind of silly because it doesn't train you to look for the best cross in inspection, you just arbitrarily pick one.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  15. emolover

    emolover Member

    3,097
    7
    Aug 15, 2010
    Carmel, IN
    WCA:
    2009MAHO01
    YouTube:
    jak343434
    Since I have been colour neutral since my very first solve I have always wondered how non colour neutrality works. Will a few you answer this for me? What do you look for in something like the T perm?

    [​IMG]

    I just subconsciously see that there are two adjacent corners to the right switched and that there are two opposite edges switched with one of them being in between the two corners. Thus being the T perm pattern.

    So how do you non colour neutral people recognize this? Also state what crosses you solve.
     
  16. zipzap321

    zipzap321 Member

    51
    0
    Oct 19, 2009
    Harrisonburg, Va
    WCA:
    2010MAST01
    YouTube:
    zipzap3211
    I transitioned to color neutrality when I was sub-20 and have now gotten down to the same times that I was at before I began transitioning. I transitioned by looking for the best cross and solving on that cross. I find CN extremely helpful when solving big cubes and that is one of the main reasons that I switched. I find that CN has given me easier solves more consistently and has helped me with lookahead.
     
  17. jskyler91

    jskyler91 Member

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    Mar 23, 2011
    Berkeley CA
    YouTube:
    jskyler91
    This is an extremely interesting question!!! I also thing by how the pieces work. What do others see?

    I also personally think the dice idea is simple, but it doesn't train you to learn the colors and how to choose the best cross.
     
  18. Riley

    Riley Member

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    May 14, 2011
    California
    WCA:
    2007WOOR01
    YouTube:
    mylifeisriley
    I see two 1x1x2 blocks, and an opposite color piece between them. White cross only.
     
  19. JasonK

    JasonK Premium Member

    1,335
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    Oct 31, 2010
    Melbourne, AUS
    WCA:
    2011KILB01
    As far as I can tell, I recognise it in exactly the same way as you. I'm opp. neutral but it was the same when I was white-only.
     
  20. Mollerz

    Mollerz Swag Overlord

    1,203
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    May 17, 2011
    Surrey, England
    WCA:
    2011MOLL01
    YouTube:
    CalciumIRL

    I'll answer this as someone who is CN, as I appear to recognise differently to you. I just see the case generally from whatever angle. The only ones that give me small issues are G Perms, but I recognise from dependant on where I finish the OLL from.

    For a T Perm if I'm looking from:

    FL: I see an oppositely coloured edge in headlights. This edge, green in the case of picture, is the same as the corner. If it were an R Perm then colour in headlights would be different.

    FR: 2 corners which need swapping at the front and at the right. Since the ones on the left and right are the same. The edge is the opposite colour to the FUR piece.

    BR: The same as FR just mirrored.

    BL: The same as FL just mirrored.

    I can usually always recognise what PLL it is from looking at 2 faces but generally, I'll take a peek at a 3rd side to confirm my PLL. I very very rarely do a PLL wrong when I only look from 2 sides.
     

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