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3-Style Tutorial

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2011MARE02
#3
Great tutorial! The only parts I don't like are your 2 guidelines. I don't understand why tutorials insist on dissuading people from learning new things until they reach a certain average. Learning stuff and getting faster are not mutually exclusive pursuits; learning 3-style doesn't stop you from getting better at using letter pairs or working on your pauses. It's like telling new cubers they shouldn't bother learning f2l until they can average sub-15 with the beginner's method. If your goal is to get as fast as possible using a determined method, the sooner you learn that method the better, there's no point in putting tons of effort into a method you know you'll eventually dispose of.

Same applies to "only learn if you're serios about BLD". I'm not serious about BLD at all, and I don't see any downsides to having learned 3-style.
 
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#4
Great tutorial! The only parts I don't like are your 2 guidelines. I don't understand why tutorials insist on dissuading people from learning new things until they reach a certain average. Learning stuff and getting faster are not mutually exclusive pursuits; learning 3-style doesn't stop you from getting better at using letter pairs or working on your pauses. It's like telling new cubers they shouldn't bother learning f2l until they can average sub-15 with the beginner's method. If your goal is to get as fast as possible using a determined method, the sooner you learn that method the better, there's no point in putting tons of effort into a method you know you'll eventually dispose of.

Same applies to "only learn if you're serios about BLD". I'm not serious about BLD at all, and I don't see any downsides to having learned 3-style.
I don't necessarily disagree, but IMO having a 2min barrier as a guideline is a way to make sure the learner has already developed a good sense of how the cube works, which is absolutely vital for BLD.

Also if one is not serious about BLD, learning 3Style will most likely be unnecessarily hard and potentially too frustrating.

Most importantly, anyone can just as well disagree and just go for it :p
 
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2016LEWI07
#5
I'm roughly a ~5 min M2/OP solver but my time is mostly because I don't practice nearly as much as I should. I already understood the basics of comms and have experimented with them in the past to get the concept down. I found this clear, easy to follow, and it bolstered my understanding. Mission accomplished and I'm looking forward to the next vid in the series.
 
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#6
I enjoy learning new methods and techniques for their own sake. I’m about 5 mins right now too, same as @pglewis , using M2/OP.

I won’t wait to a point when my times are at some time to practice new methods like 3-style. Instead, when I’m solid on my use of M2 edges (which I only started learning a couple weeks ago) and I don’t have to think as much about my setups and special M-slice cases, then I’ll add 3-style. Just to keep it interesting and keep learning.

I’ll definitely watch this again.

Edit to add:
I should add that I am not ready to begin learning 3-style at this point. I think this is a great tutorial and although, I’m not ready, I was able to follow the explaination and concepts. I’m not comfortable enough with my current method to add this complexity to my method.

Again, very nicely done tutorial.
 
Last edited:

mark49152

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#7
I don't understand why tutorials insist on dissuading people from learning new things until they reach a certain average.
At any level there will be better or worse choices for how to focus your efforts to improve, assuming your goal is to get competent and improve your times. If you average 5 minutes at 3BLD, there are other things you would be better to get proficient at before you move on to more advanced stuff like 3style. It is reasonable and helpful for a 3style tutorial to offer such advice. None of it is set in stone, obviously - if someone wants to start out learning 3style instead of OP because that appeals to them, they are free to disregard advice, but that doesnt mean the advice was bad. Some people have successfully learned BLD starting out with comms - it just takes longer and requires more patience.
 
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Thread starter #8
Great tutorial! The only parts I don't like are your 2 guidelines. I don't understand why tutorials insist on dissuading people from learning new things until they reach a certain average. Learning stuff and getting faster are not mutually exclusive pursuits; learning 3-style doesn't stop you from getting better at using letter pairs or working on your pauses. It's like telling new cubers they shouldn't bother learning f2l until they can average sub-15 with the beginner's method. If your goal is to get as fast as possible using a determined method, the sooner you learn that method the better, there's no point in putting tons of effort into a method you know you'll eventually dispose of.

Same applies to "only learn if you're serios about BLD". I'm not serious about BLD at all, and I don't see any downsides to having learned 3-style.
At any level there will be better or worse choices for how to focus your efforts to improve, assuming your goal is to get competent and improve your times. If you average 5 minutes at 3BLD, there are other things you would be better to get proficient at before you move on to more advanced stuff like 3style. It is reasonable and helpful for a 3style tutorial to offer such advice. None of it is set in stone, obviously - if someone wants to start out learning 3style instead of OP because that appeals to them, they are free to disregard advice, but that doesnt mean the advice was bad. Some people have successfully learned BLD starting out with comms - it just takes longer and requires more patience.
Yep, Mark sums it up pretty well.

These are "guidelines" not "rules that must be followed." The general consensus among top BLDers is those two guidelines and I agree with them because I actually learned 3-style when I averaged around 3 mins. It almost made me quit BLD though, because I wasn't good at memo or tracing yet and it was hard to focus on so many things at once. If my goal was just to be sub-1, I would've gotten there much more quickly by drilling solves. Of course, different people will have different experiences. Jeff Park and Max Hilliard (I think?), for example, waited until they were sub-1 before learning 3-style. On the other hand, Jake Klassen learned pretty 3-style at pretty much the same time he learned BLD. People like Ishaan Agrawal and Angelo Zhang waited until they were sub-1:30 and learned when they were "supposed to." All of them are world-class BLDers now, so it just shows that these guidelines aren't set in stone :)
 
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#9
It almost made me quit BLD though, because I wasn't good at memo or tracing yet and it was hard to focus on so many things at once. If my goal was just to be sub-1, I would've gotten there much more quickly by drilling solves. Of course, different people will have different experiences.
Yeah, that's always the rub: learn it too early or have expectations on making fast progress with it and it could be frustrating, wait until you're sub 2 and it could be difficult to accept the regression it's going to cause in your times. You did explain your reasoning in the video and made it very clear nothing is set in stone.
 
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