[Unofficial] 16.73 Average of 12 - ZZ Method

Discussion in 'Puzzle Solving Videos' started by Cride5, May 26, 2011.

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  1. Cride5

    Cride5 Premium Member

    1,225
    14
    Jan 27, 2009
    Scotland
    WCA:
    2009RIDE01


    Recorded and edited on a MacBook Pro, using QuickTime + iMovie.

    Average of 12: 16.73
    Best Time: 14.85
    Worst Time: 20.58
    Standard Deviation: 1.2 (7.2%)
    Avg moves: 59.5
    Avg TPS: 3.51
    Avg inspection: 7.42

    Reconstructions:

    1. 15.76 D F' U L' F B D U B2 R F L2 R' U2 B2 R B2 L D2 U2 B2 F D2 U2 R
    Messed up scramble (boo)

    2. 17.07 L R2 U2 R' D' B D U R' F' D' B2 F2 D' U R2 B' F2 D2 B' R D' B2 F' U
    EOLine: F' R L' U' B D2 F2 (7)
    RHB1: R U' R U' R' U R U' R2 U2 R2 (11/18)
    LHB1: U L U2 L2 (4/22)
    RHB2: R U' R' U2 R U' R' U R (9/31)
    LHB2: U L' U L U L' U2 L (8/39)
    COLL: U R' U2 R U R' U R2 U' r' F R' F' r (14/53)
    EPLL: U' R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R U2 (13/66)
    TPS: 3.87
    play

    3. 16.31 F' U' B2 F2 U' L F2 L F2 L' R D' B L2 D2 L2 B2 U2 R2 L D2 U' R2 D2 U'
    EOLine: D' B L B R2 L D' (7)
    LHB1: U' R' U2 R U R2 U2 L U2 L2 (10/17)
    RH: U' L' U2 R' L U2 R U R (9/26)
    LHB2: L' U L U L' (5/31)
    OCLL: U R' F R B' R' F' R B (9/40)
    PLL: U' R U2 R' U' R d2' R' U L' U' R U2 (13/53)
    TPS: 3.25
    play

    4. (14.85) B L U R' U2 D F B2 L D' L F D' R' L D F' L' B R F2 D' F2 D U2
    EOLine: B U2 D R F' D' R D' (8)
    LHB1: L R U L' U' L2 U2 L' (8/16) <- missed a good pair there!
    RHB1: U R2 U2 R' U R2 U' R2 (8/24)
    RHB2: U2 R U' R' U' R (6/30)
    LHB2: U' L' U L (4/34)
    OCLL: U R' F R B' R' F' R B (9/43)
    PLL: U2 R U2 R' U' R d2' R' U L' U' R (12/55)
    TPS: 3.70
    play

    5. 17.66 U D2 R' F2 D2 U' L2 B U D2 R' L2 B2 F' L F2 U2 R2 F B2 R' B' D U2 F
    EOLine: B U R L' F L2 D' (7)
    RHB1: R2 U R U' R U R' U' R U R2 U' R2 (13/20) <- O_O
    LHB1: L (1/21) <- saved by the L ;-)
    RHB2: U L' U2 L U R (6/27)
    LHB2: L' U' L U L' U' L (7/34)
    COLL: U2 R U' R' U x U' L U' L' U2 R' U R U' x' (14/48)
    EPLL: R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R (11/59)
    TPS: 3.34
    play

    6. 19.68 D U' F' D R2 U R L2 B2 F L F' B U2 F2 D' U' R' B2 L2 F B2 U' R' B'
    EOLine: R2 U' L B L D2 L D' (8)
    RHB1: U R U2 R' U R U' R2 (8/16)
    LHB1: L2 U L' U L2 U2 L2 (7/23)
    LHB2: U' L' U' L U2 L' (6/29)
    RHB2: U' R U' R' U R U' R' U R (10/39)
    OCLL: U' R' F R B' R' F' R B (9/48)
    PLL: U2 x' R U' R' D R U R' u2 R' U R D R' U' R (16/64)
    TPS: 3.25
    play

    7. 16.04 F U' L' D2 U L' F D B2 L2 U2 B2 L2 U' F' B U2 F B' U2 R B2 D B L
    EOLine: B D2 R' F D2 R' F2 (7)
    LHB1: L' R U2 L' U2 L' (6/13)
    RHB1: U2 R' U' R L' U2 R U2 R (9/22)
    LHB2: L U L' R U' L U L' U2 L (10/32)
    RHB2: U R' U2 R U' R' (6/38)
    EPLL: U' R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R U' (13/51)
    3.18
    play

    8. 15.69 U' D' R' D2 B2 R' F' D' U' L' B2 D' L2 D B2 R2 U2 R2 D L' D R U L2 R2
    EOLine: D2 U L F R D2 R D' (8)
    RHB1: U L2 R2 U R' U' R' U2 R2 (9/17)
    LHB1: L U2 L' U' L U2 L' (7/24)
    RHB2: U R U R' U2 R U' R' U R U' R' (12/36)
    LHB2: U' L U2 L2 U' L2 U' L' (8/44)
    OCLL: U R U R' U R U2 R' (8/52)
    PLL: R2 U' R' U' R U R U R U' R U2 (12/64)
    TPS: 4.08
    play

    9. (20.58) F D' L' B2 F U2 D' R F' D U2 F B' L2 R U2 D2 F B2 D' R2 B2 R D2 L
    EOLine: U R D F L D (6)
    RHB1: R' L U' R L2 U L2 (7/13)
    RHB2: U' R' U' R U' R' U R U' R U2 R2 (12/25)
    LHB1: L' R U' L R' U R (7/32)
    LHB2: * U L' U' L U L' U' L U L' U' L U L' (14/46) <- made a booboo at *
    COLL: U2 R' D R2 U2 R' U R U R2 D' R (12/58)
    EPLL: U2 R' U R' U' R' U' R' U R U R2 U (13/71)
    wow fail!
    TPS: 3.45
    play

    10. 17.26 U' F L U L' R' D2 U F' D' B D F' D' F' U F U B2 U2 L2 F' L2 D' U'
    EOLine: U' F U2 D' B D' R2 D (8)
    RHB1: U' R2 U R2 U' R (6/14)
    RHB2: U' L' R U2 R' (5/19)
    LHB1: U' L U' L' U' L2 U2 L' (8/27)
    LHB2: U L' U' L U L' U' L (8/35)
    OCLL: U2 R U2 R' U' R U' R' (8/43)
    PLL: U' R' U2 R' D' R U' R' D R U R U' R' U' R U (17/60)
    TPS: 3.48
    play

    11. 16.42 R2 L F2 U' F R' U L' D B' L U' F2 L2 B F R2 B' U' F L' F' L2 B U'
    EOLine: D' L B U' R2 L' D' (7)
    RHB1: R2 L2 U R2 L U2 R U R (9/16)
    LHB1: U2 L' U2 L U L' U' L2 (8/24)
    RHB2: R U2 R' U2 R U' R' (7/31)
    LHB2: L' (1/32)
    OCLL: U' r U R' U' L' U R U' x' (9/40)
    PLL: R U R' y' R2 u' R U' R' U R' u R2 U2 (13/53)
    TPS: 3.23
    play

    12. 15.39 L2 R2 U B2 F2 U' F D2 B' R2 F' D' L' D' L2 D2 F2 L2 R U2 D' L2 R D2 U
    EOLine: U' D2 F L' D' L D' (7)
    RHB1: R2 U2 R' U2 R' U2 R2 (7/14)
    LHB1: U L U L' U L U2 L2 (8/22)
    LHB2: L' U' L U2 L' (5/27)
    RHB2: U' R U' R' U2 R U' R' U R (10/37)
    OCLL: U' R' F R B' R' F' R B (9/46)
    PLL: U2 x U2 r' U' r U2 l' U R' U' R2 D' (12/58)
    TPS: 3.77
    play


    Interesting learning experience re-constructing my speedsolves. Pretty happy with EOLine and LL. Found lots of silly mistakes in F2L though, mainly due to poor lookahead. Conclusion: I should probably work on my lookahead :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2016
  2. Athefre

    Athefre Member

    880
    0
    Jul 25, 2006
    0, 0
    Nice. Very fast inspection.

    For a method that often has low movecount listed as one of it's advantages, a 59 average seems high. I would probably average about the same number of moves with ZZ. Maybe it doesn't work the same way in a speedsolve?
     
  3. uberCuber

    uberCuber Member

    3,921
    1
    Jun 24, 2010
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    WCA:
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    Wow. I applaud your work to reconstruct all of the solves, and I applaud your EOLine movecount, especially after such short inspection :tu
     
  4. RyanReese09

    RyanReese09 Premium Member

    4,033
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    May 16, 2010
    Whiteford, MD, USA
    WCA:
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    YouTube:
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    He didn't really blockbuild for the F2L. That's why.
     
  5. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    Hi Conrad, welcome back.

    Good to see that you found some time to cube again!
     
  6. Cride5

    Cride5 Premium Member

    1,225
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    Jan 27, 2009
    Scotland
    WCA:
    2009RIDE01
    Yup, the move count was something which surprised me to! Mistakes were definitely a contributing factor. In a few solves I noticed some free pairs were broken up, and in #9 I made a bit of a stupid mistake with the last pair. While slow-solving its easily possible to get much lower move-counts, but when solving at speed it seems as though I don't really have time to consider alternatives. Most of the time I'm just going for the first thing I see (normally a corner-bias approach, with preference for URF). I think if I was more aware of other pieces around the cube, the move-count would definitely be better.

    Cheers, I was up until 4am doing the reconstructions, up at 8am for work today!

    Really?


    Hey, thanks. Yup, got Guildford open coming up, and then the world champs ... need to get practising!
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  7. OMGitsSolved

    OMGitsSolved Member

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    What do you average with 4x4? I was gonna learn ZZ but you can't do big cubes. At least unless your mega fast at finding bad edges.
    What are the rules to bad edges? It's easier to read then to listen for me. (example: if it is this color on that side then it is bad)
     
  8. Godmil

    Godmil Premium Member

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    Aberdeen, Scotland
    YouTube:
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    Pretty impressive. Thanks for the reconstructions, interesting seeing how you do some things.
     
  9. a small kitten

    a small kitten Member

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    Nice to see you solve again. When I have time today I'll try to post my own solutions to your scrambles.
     
  10. OMGitsSolved

    OMGitsSolved Member

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    Do ZZ solvers ever solve 4x4 fast?
     
  11. nitay6669

    nitay6669 Member

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    Apr 10, 2010
    haifa, israel
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    wow, you turn sooooo slowwww
    really good inspection times, by the way do you use sune-antisune colls?
     
  12. Cride5

    Cride5 Premium Member

    1,225
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    Jan 27, 2009
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    WCA:
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    That would be cool! I'm interested to see what sort of things other ZZ'ers do. If poss, would you mind doing them as speed-solves, so that I can see how you lookahead etc?

    @OMGitsSolved
    I use Z4 for 4x4, but I'm not particularly fast (around 2-ish). Z4 is pretty new/experimental. It needs further development on the edge-pairing stage. It was something I had intended to do, but kinda short of time.

    @nitay6669
    I currently use COLL for Pi, U and H cases. I may add for L and T at some point, but they're pretty fast OCLL so its not really a priority. I looked at the COLL algs for sune/anti-sune, and some of them are pretty horrible. For me personally, I don't think the Sune COLLs would be faster than OCLL/PLL.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  13. OMGitsSolved

    OMGitsSolved Member

    620
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    Can you make a tutorial video of EO line because I don't get what you said in your tutorial and bldmaster's tut is very choppy.
     
  14. Cride5

    Cride5 Premium Member

    1,225
    14
    Jan 27, 2009
    Scotland
    WCA:
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    I did some slow-solve solutions to these scrambles (using the same EOLine) to see how concentrating on efficiency affects things:

    2. L R2 U2 R' D' B D U R' F' D' B2 F2 D' U R2 B' F2 D2 B' R D' B2 F' U
    EOLine: F' R L' U' B D2 F2 (7)
    RHB1: L U R' U' R (5/12)
    LHB1: L2 U R L U' L U2 L' (8/20)
    LHB2: R' U' L' (3/23)
    RHB2: U R U2 R' U2 R U' R' (8/31)
    play

    3. F' U' B2 F2 U' L F2 L F2 L' R D' B L2 D2 L2 B2 U2 R2 L D2 U' R2 D2 U'
    EOLine: D' B L B R2 L D' (7)
    RHB1: U' L' R2 U' R2 (5/12)
    RHB2: L2 R U' R' U' R (6/18)
    LHB1: U' L2 U L' U L U2 L (8/26)
    LHB2: U' L U L' (4/30)
    play

    4. B L U R' U2 D F B2 L D' L F D' R' L D F' L' B R F2 D' F2 D U2
    EOLine: B U2 D R F' D' R D' (8)
    LHB1: L U L' U2 L2 (5/13)
    RHB1: U2 R' U2 R' (4/17)
    RHB2: U2 R' U L' R U R' (7/24)
    LHB2 U' L U L' (4/28)
    play

    5. U D2 R' F2 D2 U' L2 B U D2 R' L2 B2 F' L F2 U2 R2 F B2 R' B' D U2 F
    EOLine: B U R L' F L2 D' (7)
    RHB1: U' L U2 L' R U' R2 (7/14)
    LHB2: U2 R U2 L (4/18)
    RHB2: R' U' R U2 R' U R U R' (9/27)
    play

    6. D U' F' D R2 U R L2 B2 F L F' B U2 F2 D' U' R' B2 L2 F B2 U' R' B'
    EOLine: R2 U' L B L D2 L D' (8)
    RHB1: L' U L2 R' U R2 (6/14)
    LH: U2 L U' L2 U' L' U L U L (10/24)
    RHB2: U' R' U' R U R' (6/30)
    play

    7. F U' L' D2 U L' F D B2 L2 U2 B2 L2 U' F' B U2 F B' U2 R B2 D B L
    EOLine: B D2 R' F D2 R' F2 (7)
    LHB1: L' R U2 L' U2 L2 (6/13)
    LHB2: R U R' U' R U2 L (7/20)
    RHB1: U2 R' U2 R2 (4/24)
    RHB2: U' R U R' U R U R' (8/32)
    play

    8. U' D' R' D2 B2 R' F' D' U' L' B2 D' L2 D B2 R2 U2 R2 D L' D R U L2 R2
    EOLine: D2 U L F R D2 R D' (8)
    LHB1: U' L U2 L' U L2 (6/14)
    RHB1: U' L U2 L' R2 U R' U2 R2 (9/23)
    RHB2: U R (2/25)
    LHB2: L2 U2 L2 U' L2 U' L' (7/32)
    play

    9. F D' L' B2 F U2 D' R F' D U2 F B' L2 R U2 D2 F B2 D' R2 B2 R D2 L
    EOLine: U R D F L D (6)
    RHB1: U2 R U2 R2 U R (6/12)
    LHB1: L U' R L2 U L2 (6/18)
    RHB2: U L' U2 R' (4/22)
    LHB2: U' L U2 L' U L U L' (8/30)
    play

    10. U' F L U L' R' D2 U F' D' B D F' D' F' U F U B2 U2 L2 F' L2 D' U'
    EOLine: U' F U2 D' B D' R2 D (8)
    LH: U2 R2 U L' U' L2 U' L' (8/16)
    RH: U R U2 R U' R U' R' U' R' (10/26)
    play

    11. R2 L F2 U' F R' U L' D B' L U' F2 L2 B F R2 B' U' F L' F' L2 B U'
    EOLine: D' L B U' R2 L' D' (7)
    RHB1: U L' R U2 R2 (5/12)
    RHB2+LHB1: U2 L2 U' R L U L U R' L (10/22)
    LHB2: U' L U2 L' U2 L U' L' (8/30)
    play

    12. L2 R2 U B2 F2 U' F D2 B' R2 F' D' L' D' L2 D2 F2 L2 R U2 D' L2 R D2 U
    EOLine: U' D2 F L' D' L D' (7)
    LHB2: U2 L2 U' L' U2 L2 (6/13)
    LHB1: U R2 U L (4/17)
    RHB1: U2 R' U' R U2 R' U' R' (8/25)
    RHB2: U2 R' U2 R U2 R' U R (8/33)
    play
    So, original average F2L move-count was: 37.18
    With slowsolving it is reduced to: 29.91 (7.27 less moves average)
    So with a pretty efficient F2L the average move-count could be reduced to about 52. In practice, achieving sub-30 move-counts on ZZF2L requires tracking of a lot of pieces. I think probably aiming for something like 33 (55 total) would be more realistic.


    @OMG - what aspect of EOLine are you having trouble with?
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  15. OMGitsSolved

    OMGitsSolved Member

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    I mean sometimes I come out with an odd number of edges and sometimes I get an even number but I fail to orient them correctly and sometimes I just can't find a way track all of the edges to orient them.
     
  16. OMGitsSolved

    OMGitsSolved Member

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    I think I got it. I'll play with it for awhile. Do you think it's possible to sub-1 on 4x4 with Z4?
     
  17. Kirjava

    Kirjava Colourful

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    badass
     
  18. Cride5

    Cride5 Premium Member

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    Hehe :)

    Are you coming to WC btw? We're thinking of going to the full-moon beech party on the 12th, you should come!

    @OMG, sub-1 with Z4? Sure, why not :)
     
  19. Kirjava

    Kirjava Colourful

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    idk, I think I'd rather go to nats
     

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