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yourmother

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Jan 23, 2012
Messages
5
Thank you all guys for your answers! I actually didn't expect that many!
I understand that i should go slower and i will do as Skeletonboy said!
I'm actually taking my times with the cross already done.
Today i practice a lot and i had an average on 20 of 1.03 with: Cross, F2L, and OLL and PLL with a personal method which is what i remembered from the beginner method and some stuff i found around because i didn t start to practice with the 2-look OLL and PLL. Should i study them at the same time as the F2L or should i start them after being confident with the F2L?
I hope you understand my English i m sorry ;)

Thank you again guys for your help!
 

iTz Dr Pepper

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Dec 17, 2011
Messages
15
A week after I first learned F2L, I remember in school someone was going to time me. I remember thinking "Better use beginner method cause thats way faster than me F2L(it probably took about 40 seconds to do F2l at that time)". Thats when I averaged like 1:20. Now my F2L takes like 9 seconds. That was about 12 weeks ago maybe?
 

maderito

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Oct 28, 2011
Messages
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Location
New Haven, CT
F2L: lookahead for what?

After getting to < 1 minute on most solves, I decided to think more carefully about "lookahead". Turns out that if you search speedsolving.com for "lookahead" (for Google, lookahead=look ahead), it has thousands of hits.

Google query for site: speedsolving.com - # hits
-lookahead/look ahead - 10,400
-practice - 15,100
-rubik - 24,800
-cube - 82,700

Seems like there's a lot of talk here about lookahead to solve the Rubk's cube. o_o

A lookahead self-diagnostic:
To get faster, I was tempted to learn some of the non-trivial F2L cases, but a simple self diagnostic persuaded me otherwise (at least for now). I leisurely performed a few F2L solves, stopping for as long as needed to fully prefigure how to move a pair into an F2L slot. The solve (moving the cube faces) itself takes 10-15 seconds (at my stage). That means there are 15 seconds "wasted" doing other things in my average F2L solve of 25-30 seconds. And that's the 15 seconds that "lookahead" presumably will eliminate -- or will it.

That's when I asked more seriously -- what am I looking for while looking ahead, since it was quite obvious that I wasn't going to immediately start seeing the "next pair." So I began to think of the subtasks while looking ahead:

Some lookahead subtasks
1. Find and track the corner
2. Find and track the edge
3. Recognize the case
4. Adjust the upper face (AUF) and/or perform a cube rotation if necessary
5. Execute the solving algorithm
6. Add 1 to solved pairs (while remembering which ones were solved)
7. Subtract 1 from free slots (while remembering where they are)
8. If solving the 4th slot, prepare mentally to recognize the OLL case.

This is by no means a complete list, but more importantly, this is NOT a step-by-step guide to what needs to be accomplished during lookahead while identifying and inserting an F2L pair. Depending on the cube state, one probably moves intuitively and fluidly among these subtasks, varying your mental attack on the problem with the case at hand. As in all complex problem solving, this is not a linear process. For those who are sub 20 secs, you are probably doing all of this effortlessly and focusing on more advanced tasks (new algorithms, multi-slotting, etc.).

OK, the above tasks don't provide a how-to recipe. But each task gives me something to focus on in order to push it further into my intuitive, subconscious space. Not different, really, than repeatedly executing an algorithm to acquire muscle memory. Thus I can now choose to work on one particular F2L lookahead subtask - not always, but occasionally as a focused practice exercise.

Basically, this is about avoiding brain freeze, unnecessary AUF moves (U' U' U'). It's about not panicking when you get can't find a corner or an edge. It's about understanding the inner logic of the cube and what is possible and what's not. It's about applying what you learn during slow solves to timed solves. It is a guide to what you might focus on during a practice session. Maybe it's helping me.

Does this make sense to you?
 

Bapao

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Just practice F2L until the individual cases become fluent. Once you're there, "look ahead" will come knocking at your door without an invite.
 
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skeletonboy

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Dec 22, 2011
Messages
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British Columbia, Canada
Practicing usefully, slowing down is also very important. If you don't slow down it is almost impossible to learn lookahead. Slow down, start slow, then slowly increase your tps without affecting your lookahead.
 

pi.cubed

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Nov 20, 2010
Messages
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Sydney, Australia
I think lookahead during F2L is often made to seem much more complicated than it is.
It really isn't too difficult to solve F2L with no pauses. Like skeletonboy & Bapao said, just practise without lookahead until you can solve F2L easily. You should be able to recognize each 'case' quickly and execute it with your eyes closed. Probably don't start lookahead until you can solve F2L in idk, maybe 20 seconds max. Then just start turning as slowly as you need to to solve the F2L without pauses. Don't time yourself while you're doing this - probably you'll just end up frustrated because you think your times aren't fast enough. And don't force yourself to turn faster - just solve as slowly as you need to and very gradually speed up. You'll find your F2L is getting much faster.

When I first tried to improve my F2L lookahead I made myself this really complicated 2 month or something program with a whole host of exercises I was planning to do. I eventually gave up on it because it just wasn't fun, and making a program and doing specific exercises was completely unnecessary.
There are various specific exercises, such as turbotracking, which will improve your lookahead. But IMO they are not necessary at all until you are past sub-20 (for the whole cube).

So basically don't overcomplicate your F2L lookahead. It really isn't that difficult or complicated.

Good luck. :)
 
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maderito

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Oct 28, 2011
Messages
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Location
New Haven, CT
Just practice F2L until the individual cases become fluent. Once you're there, "look ahead" will come knocking at your door without an invite.

Thanks Bapao and other responders. Seems to be a consensus . . . lookahead just comes to you with patient, steady practice.
 

applemobile

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Jan 8, 2012
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exeter uk
IMO although it seems obvious, the most important part to 'looking ahead' is to remember where the solved sides are. It sounds obvious, but there is no point in looking for the edge you need in a slot that has already been solved.
 

andyfreeman

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Jan 8, 2012
Messages
117
Just get familiar with your method now, you don't need lookahead to sub-30.

Assuming you can turn the cube fast enough to make up for not looking ahead.

I can't see the reason behind not looking ahead from the start. Doing it without look-ahead is a bad habit, meaning it is a bad habit to get out of. Best to start as you mean to go on.
 
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maderito

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Oct 28, 2011
Messages
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Location
New Haven, CT
IMO although it seems obvious, the most important part to 'looking ahead' is to remember where the solved sides are.
Definitely not obvious to me as the most important of the 8 subtasks I mentioned. However, it is definitely the lookahead subtask I am least capable of doing at my stage. So you may have a good point here.
 

Cubeimpact

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Feb 14, 2012
Messages
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Guys if I looked ahead, but my F2L was still 20-23 seconds, what can I do to make it faster?
 

blakedacuber

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I would say that you work on your lookahead and practicing F2L with it usefully.
Lookahead is when you search for another pair's pieces while doing the current pair. So you don't go like "do first F2L pair. Stall for 5 seconds. do second F2L pair, wait 5 seconds"
You do all the recognizing and looking while you do the current piece. You will need to practice and learn F2L at least that you can do them easily blind. That way, you do your current pair without looking at it so you can look for other pieces. Then, when you have found the pieces for the 2nd F2L pair, do the case blind, and lookahead for the 3rd pair's piece. This goes on until you are done the F2L. And just a side note, people have used lookahead for even the whole solve. You can sometimes predict OLL cases when you are finishing your LAST F2L pair. That's called LL recognition and there are multiple videos about it on youtube.

Lookahead DOES require you to slow down, and actually another great tip is to slow down when you are looking ahead. Comparision:

Speed Burst: 5 second inspection for 1st pair, execution 2 sec X4 = 28 seconds.
Slow style: 5 sec inspect for 1st pair, execution 3 sec, 2nd pair 3 sec (skipped inspection),3rd pair, 3 sec, 4th pair, 3 sec= 18 sec

And, also, don't just practice it. You should slow down and think of what you are doing so you can "morph" into the cube knowing the F2L more clearly. Good Luck

i didn't even read all of that but from what i did read it was horrible advice...... you shouldn't need look ahead at that speed(no offence).. and he is a beginner and probably doesn't know every case well enough to even attempt look ahead....Please think before posting the same advice to everyone.

to the OP: you should focus on becoming somewhat efficient often people have slow f2l because they are inefficient keep practicing... you shouldn't need look ahead until you avg sub 30 for a full solve also don't restrict your during cross if you see an easy x-cross go for it the worst that can happen is that you mess up and a few seconds on to your time and the chances of getting an easy x-cross are pretty slim so if you see it go for it
 

skeletonboy

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Dec 22, 2011
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i didn't even read all of that but from what i did read it was horrible advice...... you shouldn't need look ahead at that speed(no offence).. and he is a beginner and probably doesn't know every case well enough to even attempt look ahead....Please think before posting the same advice to everyone.

to the OP: you should focus on becoming somewhat efficient often people have slow f2l because they are inefficient keep practicing... you shouldn't need look ahead until you avg sub 30 for a full solve also don't restrict your during cross if you see an easy x-cross go for it the worst that can happen is that you mess up and a few seconds on to your time and the chances of getting an easy x-cross are pretty slim so if you see it go for it

I don't think it is a horrible advice. Lookahead is a good habit for any person doing F2L. I don't see why he can't attempt lookahead when he knows F2L. If he's going to practice F2L, lookahead isn't a bad thing, neither is it for a beginner like him. You know everyone has a different level of opinion on when to start which step. Some people say learn 4LLL when you average sub 50. Some say learn 4LLL when you sub 2 min. And I was one of those people who decided to go for 2LLL when I averaged sub 1:50 min.
It might seem to you that it may be too early for him. I'm just giving my side of opinion's advice to him, and not every advice useful of not should be universal to every cuber in the world.
It is his choice to choose my opinion of advice or not, I just want to help him, and so can you as you just did telling him to learn the X-Cross.

And yes, I do think about my posts before I post, I don't see why not when I was typing that post or this post that I should keep lookahead a secret to him.
 

Chrisandstuff

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Jan 12, 2012
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Clovis, NM
Ok I learned F2L about a month ago maybe (not sure really lol) and my F2L+Cross takes me around 23 seconds and I usually can spot my next pair while inputing my current pair. But yea just keep practicing it.
Watch how the pieces move while your inputting a pair.
Understand how to make each case for you F2L pairs easiest. Dont always take the initial intuitive route maybe youd be better off rotating the corner and its in place for the pair.
Take time just to sit and practice your F2L alone. Take it slow and full UNDERSTAND how F2L works. You will see your times dropping.
Do learn 4LLL its only about 16 algs and will really reduce your average when you get comfortable with all the algs. Learn about 1 or 2 a day. Your progressing great though just keep up the practice and it will get better.
Btw I have a friend that just started learning 4LLL and he has finally broken the sub 50 average barrier now! (he was around mid 50 average before)

Good luck and happy cubing!
 

blakedacuber

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I don't think it is a horrible advice. Lookahead is a good habit for any person doing F2L. I don't see why he can't attempt lookahead when he knows F2L. If he's going to practice F2L, lookahead isn't a bad thing, neither is it for a beginner like him. You know everyone has a different level of opinion on when to start which step. Some people say learn 4LLL when you average sub 50. Some say learn 4LLL when you sub 2 min. And I was one of those people who decided to go for 2LLL when I averaged sub 1:50 min.
It might seem to you that it may be too early for him. I'm just giving my side of opinion's advice to him, and not every advice useful of not should be universal to every cuber in the world.
It is his choice to choose my opinion of advice or not, I just want to help him, and so can you as you just did telling him to learn the X-Cross.

And yes, I do think about my posts before I post, I don't see why not when I was typing that post or this post that I should keep lookahead a secret to him.
I nevr said he should learn xcross? i said take advantage of it if its an easy case.. im not trying to keep it a secret to him but I think people need to be very comfortable with f2l before they try using lookahead, because lets agree that your more likely to use lookahead effectively when your better at f2l?
 

skeletonboy

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Dec 22, 2011
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I nevr said he should learn xcross? i said take advantage of it if its an easy case.. im not trying to keep it a secret to him but I think people need to be very comfortable with f2l before they try using lookahead, because lets agree that your more likely to use lookahead effectively when your better at f2l?

How is he supposed to do an easy X Cross case if he doesn't even know what is X-Cross?

anyway, different people, different opinions. I'm not trying to bicker here, yes you are right, you can use lookahead more effectievly when you have a good F2L. Doesn't mean he should not learn lookahead right now.
 

skeletonboy

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Dec 22, 2011
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Location
British Columbia, Canada
Look ahead can only be done when one can effortlessly spot pairs and insert them without thinking too much. This is why I believe one needs to be decent at F2L before attempting to look ahead, otherwise it's simply not feasible. So basically, with 35 seconds for F2L, you can't really look ahead much, you would need to think about what you are doing.

I am just trying to tell him or inform him of lookahead. I am not pressuring him to do lookahead, just explaining why he should work on lookahead. This way, when he practices F2L, he can remember that there is such thing in this world called lookahead and may try to attempt at his own risk to lookahead without asking again on this forum, what should I do next.
 
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