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4BLD and 5BLD mean of 3

Sajwo

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It should be officially ranked. They accomplished the hardest in speedcubing and they even can't call themselves world record holders. Yet 3BLD mean of 3 is officially ranked for some time. It just requires some changes in the page code.
 

not_kevin

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One major limitation for that is that many comps don't have the time for 3 attempts of the larger BLD events, particularly in the US, where the norm is having 1-day competitions. Because of that, it means that some regions simply never have many opportunities to even attempt the feat. 3BLD mo3 is something that many places have already done, because of the old precedent of preferring bo3 for the event; that's why adding 3BLD mo3 was a pretty straightforward idea.

I do agree, 'tho, that having the statistic be readily available is a great idea, and for sure, and Ollie and Cale should very proudly take their titles of WR holders in the mean :)
 

Goosly

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It should be officially ranked.

Well, that's just your opinion. Actually I do have a mo3 in 4bld, but I don't care whether it's officially ranked or not.

Because of that, it means that some regions simply never have many opportunities to even attempt the feat.

Because of the same reason, the same regions never have the opportunity to get a mo3 in FMC, which is officially ranked.
 
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Ollie

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As much as I'd love a free world record, I can't see this happening. Simply because people aren't interested, and because it would impact negatively on those in the 'all events club' that do not have a 4BLD or 5BLD mean.

That being said:

1. https://github.com/cubing/wca-regulations/issues/111 - all of the arguments that supported 3BLD means being recognised officially can be applied to 4BLD and 5BLD means. Points 1 and 2 are not as strong in this instance, but 4BLD and 5BLD scrambles are also influenced by luck.

2. It does not change the round format, nor does it affect competition resources as nearly as much as FMC Mo3s do.

For Rubik's Cube: Blindfolded "Best of 3" rounds, rankings and records of the mean will be recognized. This also applies to existing "Best of 3" results. (#111 / 5660ed5)
  • There is significant interest in recognizing these results. Since it does not change the round format, it does not require competitors to change their competition strategy for placing in competition.

and

The "Best of 3" round format has been removed as an option for events that have a "Mean of 3" format. (#109 / 2685170)
Both formats take roughly the same resources, so the preferred format should be used. Almost all competitions followed this in 2012 and 2013.

3. It is against the goal of the WCA. It is unfair on those individuals who worked hard to go beyond the call of duty in getting a single success in a competition are not recognized, in what are already very difficult events.

Just another two cents on top, I just think it's bizarre to think that Nevins Chan Pak Hoong should be placed in a small corner of the website for being the first person in the world to get a Mo3 in 5BLD, which is a monumental speedcubing accomplishment.
 
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Kit Clement

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This might be something worth considering if 4BLD and 5BLD advance and become more competitive like 3BLD has. Granted, I'm not the best person to be stating an opinion on this, but it seems to me that the overall skill level of 3BLD competitors has pushed the records to the point where you absolutely need good scrambles to break records -- even the mean of 3 is starting to require a bit of scramble luck. I don't think this is anywhere close to being the case in 4BLD/5BLD yet. Given the lengthy nature of the event, I think there is more room to be able to practice and break records without necessarily getting the best scramble. Someone who is world class at 4BLD/5BLD can correct me if I'm wrong about this.

I think the arguments Ollie has about the all-events club and the overall difficult of the event are valid here too.
 

Ollie

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This might be something worth considering if 4BLD and 5BLD advance and become more competitive like 3BLD has. Granted, I'm not the best person to be stating an opinion on this, but it seems to me that the overall skill level of 3BLD competitors has pushed the records to the point where you absolutely need good scrambles to break records -- even the mean of 3 is starting to require a bit of scramble luck. I don't think this is anywhere close to being the case in 4BLD/5BLD yet. Given the lengthy nature of the event, I think there is more room to be able to practice and break records without necessarily getting the best scramble. Someone who is world class at 4BLD/5BLD can correct me if I'm wrong about this.

I think the arguments Ollie has about the all-events club and the overall difficult of the event are valid here too.

I think 4BLD is somewhat luck based now, while 5BLD still has a long way to go. The current 4BLD WR scramble had 22 wing targets in one cycle, with nice centers and no parity. I will struggle to beat it, and only a handful of 4BLDers have the potential to right now. In fact, I still think there are good cases for getting rid of 5BLD.

But there is no harm in recognising the previous achievements, while the events catch up to 3BLD in their competitiveness. It might even make it more competitive, as global accuracy becomes something extra to train for.
 
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Damien Porter

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I solidly think that 4bld and 5bld means should be recognized. It isn't going to change competition and we already have access to it on the WCA website.

I think the argument but I won't have completed everything is a bit flimsy. I mean tomorrow WCA might announce that the magic egg is now an official event and no-one would be part of that club.

I know this may be an unpopular opinion but I also think that Mbld should have a mean. Those more knowledgeable than me might correct but I don't believe that best of 3 is done for Mbld, but we could still do mean of 2. I know it is rare people get the opportunity to go for this and it would have to be a score like 8 points instead of 9/10 cubes, then an average of the times. But I think it would be an interesting stat to see that would reward consistency, even more than Mbld already does.

I may not be anywhere near it yet, but one day I would like to have singles and means in all 4 blind events, it would be nice to have them recognized.
 

Damien Porter

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Three hours per round?

No definitely not (at least under normal conditions, i think it would be kinda cool to hold Mbld comps similar on concept to USA FMC, but that's another story). I mean when multiple attempts of Mbld are held, then even though the winner is the best single score, the mean is also put into the database. I don't think that we should make any changes to Mbld, just concider more stats official.
 
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tseitsei

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I don't actually like this idea that much.

IMO it focuses too much on the accuracy and too little on speed. 5bld single is already on the edge with this "accuracy over speed" thing but it's still on the good side IMO. And it's constantly getting better as more people become better faster and more accurate on bigbld.

For 3bld mean it's still possible to get a mean even if you are trying to go fast since people can achieve over 80% accuracy even when going (almost) full speed. I doubt anyone can achieve close to 80% accuracy on 5bld if they are going anywhere near their normal speed. And I dont like that you need to choose if you try to get a decent single or if you try to get a mean just completed...

Mbld is good because you dont need a 100% accuracy to get a result. Mbld rewards both speed(you can try more cubes) and accuracy(more of those cubes will be correct).

Also I strongly disagree with mbld mo3 for a few reasons.
1. Single mbld will already last an hour and will be 15+ cubes for decent solvers. I think that is big enough sample size to show your skills quite well. After all in all other events we only solve 3 or 5 cubes. Here we solve many more.
2. Very many people (me included) that attempt large amount of cubes can only do 1 serious mbld attempt a day since their memory route is full and exhausted for the rest of the day. So only place this could be done reasonably is 3 day competitions and scheduling 1 attempt for each day. I think that's just too rare occurrance to be considered official
 

Ollie

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Last time I voted against 3BLD Mo3 being official, but well, it happened.
I also voted for removing 5BLD from the list of official events because it's "side event of side event", and now the proposal to add an extra event...

It's not an extra event. It's properly recognising achievements in the events we already have, and giving those people who aren't necessarily fast (but are accurate) something to aim for in competition.

IMO it focuses too much on the accuracy and too little on speed. 5bld single is already on the edge with this "accuracy over speed" thing but it's still on the good side IMO. And it's constantly getting better as more people become better faster and more accurate on bigbld.

For 3bld mean it's still possible to get a mean even if you are trying to go fast since people can achieve over 80% accuracy even when going (almost) full speed. I doubt anyone can achieve close to 80% accuracy on 5bld if they are going anywhere near their normal speed. And I dont like that you need to choose if you try to get a decent single or if you try to get a mean just completed...

I don't see how this is any different for 4BLD or 5BLD. You can still choose to win the round or go for a record with a fast single.

As for the accuracy argument, it is possible to go at a lower speed in big BLD and still achieve good accuracy and fast means, you just don't see it in the rankings because there is no incentive. It's not that people can't do it.
 

mark49152

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No definitely not (at least under normal conditions, i think it would be kinda cool to hold Mbld comps similar on concept to USA FMC, but that's another story). I mean when multiple rounds of Mbld are held, then even though the winner is the best single score, the mean is also put into the database. I don't think that we should make any changes to Mbld, just concider more stats official.
Taking a mean across attempts in different rounds is unprecedented for any WCA event AFAIK.
 
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