Why did I get a DNF?

ryanj92 · Feb 21, 2015

Akash Rupela said:
Being 11 is no grounds for not knowing rules.

True, but it does make you more likely to believe someone else if they are telling you that they know the rules better... Even now, if Daniel or James were to come up to me at a comp and tell me I was doing something wrong, I would believe them because although I know the rules pretty well, I know that they know them better.
It's been made pretty clear that the kid knows the rules and was just following the authority of someone who made an honest mistake, the timescale is a bit crazy but I see no reason to not undo this DNF...

hcfong · Feb 21, 2015

What he should have done is involve the delegate. The question is whether he knew who the delegate was? The delegate, especially in Europe, is not always clearly introduced at the competition so if you don't know how the delegate looks like, it could be hard to find him. anyway, I've watched the video and what suprirses me is that 4 people have failed to call the delegate. First the competitor, who may or may not have known who the delegate was. Then the judge, who grabbed a random bloke, who then grabbed another random bloke who made the final DNF decision. So, why didn't any of the last 3 people think of calling the delegate?

Dene · Feb 21, 2015

Akash Rupela said:
Being 11 is no grounds for not knowing rules. As much as i value correct and fair decisions, I am against any re-instatement which violates the 30 minute regulation of resolving disputes when he did not raise any voice in the first place for months.

I completely disagree, on the basis of you ignoring cultural differences. In traditional Asian families (of which there are very many) a kid of 11 yrs will only get smacked over the head if he speaks up to someone older. There is very much a "speak only when spoken to" mentality, with a strict obedience to authorities.

I feel our regulations are the problem here, not the behaviour of this kid. His solve should absolutely be re-instated.

qqwref · Feb 21, 2015

So now we're expecting a competitor (even an 11 year old) to be so confident, and to have memorized the regulations so well (remember there is almost never a printed copy at a competition) that even if the judge and an organizer tell him he's wrong, he will still be sure he is right, and will bring it up the chain of command to the WCA delegate? Does this seem completely ridiculous to anyone else?

This isn't someone arguing on a forum, with a copy of the regulations in another tab that he can copy-paste from, this is a kid at a competition trying to argue from memory. I don't think it's at all reasonable for someone to trust their memory over a few far more experienced cubers telling them they're mistaken.

Besides, everyone's acting like going to the delegate would automatically solve everything, but what if the delegate had the same misunderstanding of the judge and the organizer? Even delegates aren't perfect, you know - hell, a few of them have even been caught cheating.

tseitsei · Feb 21, 2015

qqwref said:
So now we're expecting a competitor (even an 11 year old) to be so confident, and to have memorized the regulations so well (remember there is almost never a printed copy at a competition) that even if the judge and an organizer tell him he's wrong, he will still be sure he is right, and will bring it up the chain of command to the WCA delegate? Does this seem completely ridiculous to anyone else?

This isn't someone arguing on a forum, with a copy of the regulations in another tab that he can copy-paste from, this is a kid at a competition trying to argue from memory. I don't think it's at all reasonable for someone to trust their memory over a few far more experienced cubers telling them they're mistaken.

Besides, everyone's acting like going to the delegate would automatically solve everything, but what if the delegate had the same misunderstanding of the judge and the organizer? Even delegates aren't perfect, you know - hell, a few of them have even been caught cheating.

+1 completely agree.

Just make the solve count. Several other people were wrong and not the competitor. Yes he should not have waited 3 months but he is 11 and SEVERAL other people told him the wrong rules. DNFing him for that seems rudiculous to me...

amostay2004 · Feb 22, 2015

qqwref said:
So now we're expecting a competitor (even an 11 year old) to be so confident, and to have memorized the regulations so well (remember there is almost never a printed copy at a competition) that even if the judge and an organizer tell him he's wrong, he will still be sure he is right, and will bring it up the chain of command to the WCA delegate? Does this seem completely ridiculous to anyone else?

This isn't someone arguing on a forum, with a copy of the regulations in another tab that he can copy-paste from, this is a kid at a competition trying to argue from memory. I don't think it's at all reasonable for someone to trust their memory over a few far more experienced cubers telling them they're mistaken.

Besides, everyone's acting like going to the delegate would automatically solve everything, but what if the delegate had the same misunderstanding of the judge and the organizer? Even delegates aren't perfect, you know - hell, a few of them have even been caught cheating.

This was the response I was looking for in the thread

My advice to FailCuber though - let it go. At least from this thread you know you shouldn't be DNF-ed. You're 11, and will very likely get much better times in the near future.

Laura O · Feb 22, 2015

tseitsei said:
Just make the solve count. Several other people were wrong and not the competitor. Yes he should not have waited 3 months but he is 11 and SEVERAL other people told him the wrong rules. DNFing him for that seems rudiculous to me...

I didn't read all posts again, but as far as I remember nobody argumented that the solve should stay DNF because some things went wrong.

It'a fact that it would have been better to ask a delegate, know the rules and also notice this earlier, so I don't see the problem, why this should not be discussed in a public forum.

Arphy · Feb 28, 2015

Wow, He contacted board and ilkyoo and posted on the wca forums and still nothing.

GuRoux · Feb 28, 2015

Arphy said:
Wow, He contacted board and ilkyoo and posted on the wca forums and still nothing.

how long ago?

Arphy · Mar 6, 2015

GuRoux said:
how long ago?

It's been like 3 weeks lol wca said they will fix it but they didnt.

kinch2002 · Mar 6, 2015

Illkyoo is on national service at the moment and is not contactable. The other Board members are waiting for him to return (10 days or so). Hopefully you'll hear back at that time.

SpeedCubeReview · Mar 19, 2015

I've got a DNF question

So, I have never done a competition, but I've seen couple videos where people finish their solve and the timer goes to 0. There was a recent video I saw where it happened to Feliks (I'll try to hunt for the video again if this doesn't make sense). Can someone tell me what makes that happen.

natezach728 · Mar 19, 2015

ViolaBouquet said:
I've got a DNF question

So, I have never done a competition, but I've seen couple videos where people finish their solve and the timer goes to 0. There was a recent video I saw where it happened to Feliks (I'll try to hunt for the video again if this doesn't make sense). Can someone tell me what makes that happen.

They accidentally hit the reset button with their thumb or so.

AlexMaass · Mar 19, 2015

ViolaBouquet said:
I've got a DNF question

So, I have never done a competition, but I've seen couple videos where people finish their solve and the timer goes to 0. There was a recent video I saw where it happened to Feliks (I'll try to hunt for the video again if this doesn't make sense). Can someone tell me what makes that happen.

Accidentally hitting the reset button or like hitting the timer so hard that the battery temporarily loses connection to the stackmat, so the timer shuts off because it temporarily has no power.

SpeedCubeReview · Mar 19, 2015

SO does it count as zero, or is there a save function that they can go back to see when it was hit. That would be horrible if a solve didn't count because of a bad battery compartment or poorly placed reset button.

natezach728 · Mar 19, 2015

ViolaBouquet said:
SO does it count as zero, or is there a save function that they can go back to see when it was hit. That would be horrible if a solve didn't count because of a bad battery compartment or poorly placed reset button.

Nope, its considered a DNF. That would be cool though, to see the last reset time or something.

Ranzha · Mar 19, 2015

ViolaBouquet said:
SO does it count as zero, or is there a save function that they can go back to see when it was hit. That would be horrible if a solve didn't count because of a bad battery compartment or poorly placed reset button.

Why would you think a time could count as zero?

Pro timers haven't had the best reputation of being reliable...

ryanj92 · Mar 19, 2015

ViolaBouquet said:
SO does it count as zero, or is there a save function that they can go back to see when it was hit. That would be horrible if a solve didn't count because of a bad battery compartment or poorly placed reset button.

The way it's done at comps I've been to is that if you can replicate what happened (or the delegate can), then it counts as a timer malfunction and you get an extra solve, otherwise DNF.

Stefan · Mar 19, 2015

ryanj92 said:
The way it's done at comps I've been to is that if you can replicate what happened (or the delegate can), then it counts as a timer malfunction and you get an extra solve, otherwise DNF.

If I can replicate hitting the reset button, I get an extra solve?

AlexMaass · Mar 19, 2015

ViolaBouquet said:
SO does it count as zero, or is there a save function that they can go back to see when it was hit. That would be horrible if a solve didn't count because of a bad battery compartment or poorly placed reset button.

I'm actually working on a custom made display which seems to be much cheaper than speed stacks displays, I might add that in as a feature, I don't think it would be fair to allow that save function to be used to save reset times in competition though. I'm just working on a working prototype though, shipping is taking a while on the last component I need. >.>

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Why did I get a DNF?

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