[Help Thread] Roux Discussion and Help

So, what are the <M,U> alternatives to E2 M' E2 M?
Are you using more than one different alg for that to have better cancellations according to the situation?
But at least the standard MU-alg would be already cool because E2 moves are awkward.

obelisk477 said:

A6 CMLL: r2' D' r U' r' D r2 F' r' U r F

F' done with right ring. Last F is the only bad part. Maybe left thumb if you can swing it

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This is actually pretty good. It's unfortunate that it doesn't give a 4 move EO if done on a 6-flip though.

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sqAree said:

So, what are the <M,U> alternatives to E2 M' E2 M?
Are you using more than one different alg for that to have better cancellations according to the situation?
But at least the standard MU-alg would be already cool because E2 moves are awkward.

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You can do (M' U2 M2 U2)2. However, what's even better is if you can predict you're getting dots before inserting ULUR. You can think of UFUB as being solved instead and then do 4c like that. For example,
Setup: E2 M' E2 M U M' U2 M'
Solution: M' U2 M' U2 M2 U.
As you can see, not only is this faster (no E moves), but it's also much shorter as well.

I'm currently attempting to improve my LSE, and trying to switch to this is one of the things I'm doing. I can predict dots easily enough, but for now my recognition of the edge 3-cycle for 4c is pretty bad, and since dot cases come up so rarely it's tricky to practise. But I'm sure it's worth it.

TorbinRoux said:

Do you think it would be better to familiarize yourself with 1 block very well, or have more options to start the solve, but with less confidence due to the larger spectrum of pieces needed to familiarize yourself with? Obviously multiple blocks could become very familiar but that would take much more practice


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If you mean 1 first block then I'd say no, don't just start with one block. Start with one color on the bottom and use all four sides for the first block. You are basically affecting the same pieces just a different color. Then you should move to be able to solve the opposite side bottom.

For example, my first blocks have either white/yellow bottoms and then I can solve my first block with green/red/blue/orange.


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TorbinRoux said:

Do you think it would be better to familiarize yourself with 1 block very well, or have more options to start the solve, but with less confidence due to the larger spectrum of pieces needed to familiarize yourself with? Obviously multiple blocks could become very familiar but that would take much more practice


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In my opinion it is much better to have more options, but be less familiar, because then you can solve those blocks when you get easy cases, and it opens up so many more possibilities. In my opinion, though, it is easy to be able to do different colored blocks, because for instance: I solve my blocks with white on bottom, and say you solve them with blue on left. With that, it is quite easy to do green on left, because it is just the opposite. And also, it is easy to do red or orange on left, because you still have white on bottom, and this in my opinion is easy. It mostly comes with practice though.

Thanks for all the input!


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GuRoux said:

wow, looks good, let me see if i can get fast at this, do the last F as ring push

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well?

obelisk477 said:

well?

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I think standard y perm or e perm are faster. the alg is short, but the <r, U, D, F> causes many lockups and i cant even sub 1 it.

obelisk477 said:

well?

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yeah, what pdf said.

Splits:
FB: 3 (without SB) 3.5-4 with
SB: 4.5
CMLL: 2-3
LSE: 3.5-4

Total: 14.5-15

Taken from non-rolling ao50s for all

Any tips or areas which need improvement?

shadowslice e said:

Splits:
FB: 3 (without SB) 3.5-4 with
SB: 4.5
CMLL: 2-3
LSE: 3.5-4

Total: 14.5-15

Taken from non-rolling ao50s for all

Any tips or areas which need improvement?

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first block and second block? do you plan the whole first block? how many moves? if it's 9 moves, in 3 seconds, that's 3 tps for something you have already planned. there's probably a big pause in first block to second block transition, perhaps adding the DR edge into inspection would help reduce that.

GuRoux said:

first block and second block? do you plan the whole first block? how many moves? if it's 9 moves, in 3 seconds, that's 3 tps for something you have already planned. there's probably a big pause in first block to second block transition, perhaps adding the DR edge into inspection would help reduce that.

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Well, I have to turn slower if I add the DR and track some of the other SB pieces which is why the 3.5 FB is around there. So there isn't a big pause per se it's just i have to turn slower in general and i do plan the whole of the FB and try to track the DR most of the time though.

I guess i should work on that though and learn to turn faster for what I've planned. Overall my TPS does suck though hence CMLL.

shadowslice e said:

Well, I have to turn slower if I add the DR and track some of the other SB pieces which is why the 3.5 FB is around there. So there isn't a big pause per se it's just i have to turn slower in general and i do plan the whole of the FB and try to track the DR most of the time though.

I guess i should work on that though and learn to turn faster for what I've planned. Overall my TPS does suck though hence CMLL.

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if you include recognition, 2-3 isn't that bad for cmll. in first and second block, you probably have the ability to turn fast enough, it's mostly lookahead and inspection that's putting you back. probably doing a lot of F2B solves with long inspection.

ive been deciding between cfop roux and zz and ive decided on roux (yay) but i have a few questions
1. at a comp the roux guys never turned quickly i understand this in blocks and 4a + 4b but not in 4c and cmll why dont they turn quickly at cmll
2. m slice moves to make pairs i can set pairs up if the edge is in df or db but im struggling on making other pairs also i struggle to just use m u r for secind block
3. learning cmll why not coll then its transferable i know its lless efficient but surely more people use it and therefore there are better more ergonomic algs
4. how can you get your moves under 13 stm for first block consistently
5. are there any extra alg sets i could learn after cmll

sub20oneday said:

ive been deciding between cfop roux and zz and ive decided on roux (yay) but i have a few questions

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Yay!

1. at a comp the roux guys never turned quickly i understand this in blocks and 4a + 4b but not in 4c and cmll why dont they turn quickly at cmll

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Put simply, they do turn faster at the CMLL thn for block and LSE is usually faster as well. In general though, Roux is a more efficient method so doesn't need as fast turning to be fast. Alex Lau averaged like 7s when he practised and he did like 6 tps during blocks and 8-9 for CMLL LSE.

It's also just nicer not to have sudden bursts of tps in a solve becuase it makes for a smoother nicer solve

2. m slice moves to make pairs i can set pairs up if the edge is in df or db but im struggling on making other pairs also i struggle to just use m u r for secind block

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If you go to the how to/guides section km this forums there are a set of good videos by pdf and guroux which give tips on roux which you may find helpful for this.

It's worth noting that though in theory all the people use the same method, everyone has a slight variant on roux which they have developed and works for them. This is one of the things which make roux very different from CFOP as that method is pretty fixed in techniques. To (probably mis)quote Alex Lau when asked why he switched from Roux to CFOP (though the essence is the same) "I chose Roux for 3 reasons: it looks cooler, there was more flexibility and more room to be efficient and you could make something to fit your style"

3. learning cmll why not coll then its transferable i know its lless efficient but surely more people use it and therefore there are better more ergonomic algs

...

5. are there any extra alg sets i could learn after cmll

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Put simply, the algs are not more ergonomic for COLL than CMLL. Thai is because CMLL actually uses COLL algs if the CMLL isn't more efficient so there is a lot of overlap. However, you also get some great algs such as the sexysledge and Fruruf as CMLL algs.

In terms of additional algs, Roux is designed to have few alg steps though you could learn a few cases for 6-flip LSE or alternative algs CMLL which flip the edges in different ways to influence the Eo case in LSE (this would be a subset of OLLCP)

4. how can you get your moves under 13 stm for first block consistently

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Again the answer here is practise. There is a video in the playlist I mentioned above by Guroux on first and second block efficiency which you may find useful. Basically, just take unlimited inspection and see if you can find 1 move pairs or similar and see how you can align the pieces then join them up and try to do more than one piece at once or move the other piece into a good place while pairing the other one up using the same moves.

I hope you find this helpful and I wish you luck in you Roux journey!

What Joe said. Also use the resources like pdfs cmll doc, block trainer (good for efficiency) and watch loads of vids. Personally I find gurouxs most helpful

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on second block if I place dr and dfr or dbr how do I place fr or br because I'm solving that case like lbl

sub20oneday said:

on second block if I place dr and dfr or dbr how do I place fr or br because I'm solving that case like lbl

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FR: R U' M' U R' or r U' M U R' depending on the edges's orientation.
BR: R' U' M' U' R or r' U M' U' r depending on the edge's orientation.

Also note that the corners are not affected by edge insertions like those, so you can potentially see your CMLL or at least OCLL case early.

https://vimeo.com/155184227 just a couple roux solves that I wanted some feedback on. If anyone has something I can work on (which I know I do), please tell me. I wanna be the best I can be!