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AmazingCuber

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I'm really good at corners and use old pochmann. Get a corner sucess everytime. But edges (use m2) I have problems with, as it is hard for me to track which pieces are solved and which unsolved. The putting fingers on it method doesn't really work for me since there are more edges than fingers. Any suggestions?
 

TDM

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I'm really good at corners and use old pochmann. Get a corner sucess everytime. But edges (use m2) I have problems with, as it is hard for me to track which pieces are solved and which unsolved. The putting fingers on it method doesn't really work for me since there are more edges than fingers. Any suggestions?
When I have one solved layer (including slice layers), I take my hand off it, and just remember that all four edges on that layer have been memorised. It lets me put my fingers on more pieces, and lets me see the cube better.
Anyway, you have 11 pieces to solve and 10 fingers, so when you get to the last one you don't need a finger on it :p
 

tseitsei

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I'm really good at corners and use old pochmann. Get a corner sucess everytime. But edges (use m2) I have problems with, as it is hard for me to track which pieces are solved and which unsolved. The putting fingers on it method doesn't really work for me since there are more edges than fingers. Any suggestions?

You can easily check if you have memoed a correct number of edge targets:

For 3x3 edges you should have 11 targets if you don't have any cycle breaks or flipped/solved pieces.
Cycle break always adds 1 target and obviously flipped/solved piece reduces one target

So take the scramble
F R2 B' R2 U2 B' U2 B' U2 F D2 R' D' F R B' L' D' R2 B2 R2

and scramble in your own solving orientation.

Now start to memo edges:
DL LU FU FR UR
after 5 targets you hit your buffer piece so thats cycle break. Lets break to UB location and continue
so UB RD BL UB
now we have another cycle break. Lets break to DB location and continue
DB RB DB end of cycle.

now we have memoed 12 targets and we had 2 cycle breaks so we should have 11+2(cycle breaks)=13 targets.
This means that we have one edge that must be either solved or flipped in its correct location. And by looking at the cube we see that this edge is FL edge
Now we have correct amount of targets because 11+2(cycle breaks)-1(flipped edge)=12
 

AmazingCuber

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When I have one solved layer (including slice layers), I take my hand off it, and just remember that all four edges on that layer have been memorised. It lets me put my fingers on more pieces, and lets me see the cube better.
Anyway, you have 11 pieces to solve and 10 fingers, so when you get to the last one you don't need a finger on it :p

You can easily check if you have memoed a correct number of edge targets:

For 3x3 edges you should have 11 targets if you don't have any cycle breaks or flipped/solved pieces.
Cycle break always adds 1 target and obviously flipped/solved piece reduces one target

So take the scramble
F R2 B' R2 U2 B' U2 B' U2 F D2 R' D' F R B' L' D' R2 B2 R2

and scramble in your own solving orientation.

Now start to memo edges:
DL LU FU FR UR
after 5 targets you hit your buffer piece so thats cycle break. Lets break to UB location and continue
so UB RD BL UB
now we have another cycle break. Lets break to DB location and continue
DB RB DB end of cycle.

now we have memoed 12 targets and we had 2 cycle breaks so we should have 11+2(cycle breaks)=13 targets.
This means that we have one edge that must be either solved or flipped in its correct location. And by looking at the cube we see that this edge is FL edge
Now we have correct amount of targets because 11+2(cycle breaks)-1(flipped edge)=12

Thank you so much, a combination of those 2 techniques should greatly help me!
 

Laura O

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Hi,

I currently use letterpairs for memo, M2 edges and TuRBo Corners.
While I am really fine with memo and edges, I am sick of using TuRBo because it's the reason for approximately 95% of my DNFs.
Besides it feels slow to track the orientation of the pieces when doing the individual setup moves and undoing them correctly. I average around 0:45 for just corner execution (around 3:00-3:15 for a complete solve).
There are not many cubers who use TuRBo for corners, so I couldn't find many experiences concerning this. But this problem doesn't seem to be uncommon.

So what should I do?
Switch to Old Pochmann? This would be some kind of step backwards, but would probably make things a lot easier.
Or any other idea how to simplify or improve this?

Thanks.
 

AmazingCuber

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Hi,

I currently use letterpairs for memo, M2 edges and TuRBo Corners.
While I am really fine with memo and edges, I am sick of using TuRBo because it's the reason for approximately 95% of my DNFs.
Besides it feels slow to track the orientation of the pieces when doing the individual setup moves and undoing them correctly. I average around 0:45 for just corner execution (around 3:00-3:15 for a complete solve).
There are not many cubers who use TuRBo for corners, so I couldn't find many experiences concerning this. But this problem doesn't seem to be uncommon.

So what should I do?
Switch to Old Pochmann? This would be some kind of step backwards, but would probably make things a lot easier.
Or any other idea how to simplify or improve this?

Thanks.

I am not that experienced in BLD, but I would suggest to switch to OP. As it is very simple, your execution can still be quit fast even with a higher move count -- you just barely have to think. Then, once you reach about 1:30, I would suggest you start learning commutators.
Hope I could help! :)
 

suushiemaniac

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First off: I'm not against TuRBo. It's a great method if you put the necessary effort into learning and practicing.

In response to Laura: I used to use TuRBo corners as well, but after roughly 2-3 months I took the "step backwards" and switched to M2/Old Pochmann; I found the fact that
it feels slow to track the orientation of the pieces when doing the individual setup moves and undoing them correctly.
to be absolutely true. Old Pochmann is by far more braindead, yet strikes a perfect balance between "algorithms" you need to learn (every single corner target with its necessary setup eventually becomes an algorithm embedded into your muscle memory) and the times you can achieve.

I average around 0:45 for just corner execution (around 3:00-3:15 for a complete solve).
I average around 40 seconds for corners-only memo and execution, and I've set my current official PB of 1:47.02 using M2/OP.

So after all it really comes down to practice (surprise, eh?) but OP can easily be as effective as TuRBo, whereas it is more easy to track setups, etc.
 

Applecow

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Hi Laura! :D
I suggest to switch to commutators or a slight modification of it. Jan made up a system which uses just one corner (I think it was DFR) and all its commutators, so 54 cases. You can easily set up each corner to to DFR/RDF/FRD with one move, do one commutator and undo the setup. As commutators are intuitive it shouldn't be that hard to come up with all the cases and imo there are no really hard ones for that corner :)

Edit: @gregor: gogogo commutators :D
 

Laura O

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So after all it really comes down to practice (surprise, eh?) but OP can easily be as effective as TuRBo, whereas it is more easy to track setups, etc.

Ok, I didn't know you used TuRBo corners, Gregor. :)
Of course, practice is the answer for all questions, but it seems to take a lot of time to really get used to every setup. I especially hate cycles with diagonal corners on the D-layer (like UBL (my buffer) - FRD - BLD), where three moves are necessary to bring them to the upper layer. It's not a problem in theory but my main source of errors when I try to do a smooth execution.

Hi Laura! :D
I suggest to switch to commutators or a slight modification of it. Jan made up a system which uses just one corner (I think it was DFR) and all its commutators, so 54 cases. You can easily set up each corner to to DFR/RDF/FRD with one move, do one commutator and undo the setup. As commutators are intuitive it shouldn't be that hard to come up with all the cases and imo there are no really hard ones for that corner :)

Hallo Adrian! ;)
Jan gave me this list some time ago, but I think I would rather switch to commutators in general than to practice such a sub-step.
 

ZeeK

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which method should i learn for blind solve i know old pouchmann but i want to get faster so what methods are the fastest...
 

IRNjuggle28

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Can someone tell me what algorithm sets are most common in BLD? I'd like to learn the things that overlap a lot with other methods, to maximize the usefulness of my algs. I know PLLs are used some. Learning those regardless. Are COLL or ELL used much? I know 3 cycles are used, and they're a subset of ELL. Is learning full ELL useful for BLD?
 

TDM

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Can someone tell me what algorithm sets are most common in BLD? I'd like to learn the things that overlap a lot with other methods, to maximize the usefulness of my algs. I know PLLs are used some. Learning those regardless. Are COLL or ELL used much? I know 3 cycles are used, and they're a subset of ELL. Is learning full ELL useful for BLD?
The TuRBo ones are useful (U perms, R U R' U' M' U R U' r'+mirrors+inverses; M' U M U2 M' U M+mirror). COLL isn't useful as it affects edge permutation. Other than those ELLs and PLL, I don't think there are many other useful alg sets to learn. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not that good at BLD, and other people probably know more than me), but I think that's right.
 

Ollie

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The TuRBo ones are useful (U perms, R U R' U' M' U R U' r'+mirrors+inverses; M' U M U2 M' U M+mirror). COLL isn't useful as it affects edge permutation. Other than those ELLs and PLL, I don't think there are many other useful alg sets to learn. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not that good at BLD, and other people probably know more than me), but I think that's right.

Nope, you're right :)

22LL was designed to be used in speed solving, but I don't know of anyone who uses it (effectively.)
 
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