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[Help Thread] 2 look discussion - OLL and PLL

Berd

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I could probably reconstruct the alg with a bit of difficulty, but I can't recite it anymore the way I could when I first learned the alg. I just react to what I see on the cube - place the 3-block in the front left and slide down past it on the right.

Regarding the OP's question - no, you probably don't NEED full PLL, but it certainly would be helpful to you. In my case, I've already learned full PLL, and I average 35-40 seconds, so there's definitely no need to learn full OLL for quite a while - however, there's just something that bothers me about not knowing full CFOP, working on other parts of the cube while I'm still using an inefficient LL method. So I plan to learn full OLL as soon as possible, and get it out of the way so that when I reach lower times I'm a step ahead of everybody who hasn't learned it yet. [emoji14]
There are a couple of videos on cubing world, of really easy OLL cases - check them out!
 

PurpleBanana

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There are a couple of videos on cubing world, of really easy OLL cases - check them out!

Yes, I've watched a bunch of videos on the easy cases, and I know a good number of them so far (for example, the square cases and some of the small lightning bolts, which are performed as fat antisunes and fat sunes).

I'm using Bob Burton's site, badmephisto's site, and various YT videos for the OLLs, to make sure I get to pick from a variety of algs for each case.
 

TDM

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Yes, I've watched a bunch of videos on the easy cases, and I know a good number of them so far (for example, the square cases and some of the small lightning bolts, which are performed as fat antisunes and fat sunes).

I'm using Bob Burton's site, badmephisto's site, and various YT videos for the OLLs, to make sure I get to pick from a variety of algs for each case.
If you want to pick from a variety of algs for each, then algdb.net is the best place to look for algs. People submit algs they use, and can also select which ones they use, so you can see which are the most popular algs.
 

molarmanful

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Your choice...

I know full PLL and most OLLs (but I use VHLS and WVLS, so...). But I know someone who's around 20-23 seconds, and he doesn't know all of the 2-look OLL and PLL algorithms -- he just turns really fast. Personally, if you want to get faster, it would be very much worth it to learn full PLL. If you're happy with 20-23 second averages, then you might not need full PLL. But hey, your choice.
If you do choose to learn full PLL, you might want to learn to properly recognize cases. You could use my guide (molarmanful.com/pll) but it's not that good. It does include recognition, my algorithms, and links to algorithm playbacks (and a link to an online PLL trainer). But if you don't like my guide, you should use cubewhiz.com/pll.php, cyotheking.com/pll, or badmephisto.com/pll.php. These all have really nice algs. Otherwise, search algdb.net and/or Youtube and/or speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/PLL.

Good luck in your PLL endeavours!
 

PurpleBanana

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That's a nice one. The problem with that one for me is that I am really slow at alternating R and L moves (that's why I found different N-perms, and still have trouble with Ja).
 

molarmanful

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That's a nice one. The problem with that one for me is that I am really slow at alternating R and L moves (that's why I found different N-perms, and still have trouble with Ja).

Oh, for Ja? R' U2' R U R' U2' (z) U R' D R U' (z')

I had a problem with Ja, too, but then I found the algorithm above. TIP: If you don't like alternating L and R, try translating the algorithm with a z rotation.
 

NonnX

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That's a nice one. The problem with that one for me is that I am really slow at alternating R and L moves (that's why I found different N-perms, and still have trouble with Ja).
That V-perm rotated: (z) D' R2 D R2 U R' D' R U' R U R' D R U' (fingertrick the 2nd D move with your right pointerfinger)
Another Ja perm: (x') R2 u' R' u R2 x' y' R' U R' U' R2 or (y x) U2 r' U' r U2 l' U R' U' R2, although the above mentioned one is great as well :)
 
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Beginner questions about 2-step PLL

So I am very new to cubing all together. I started about a month ago so I still have tons to learn. Currently my PB is 52 seconds and I use parts of CFOP and beginners method. Currently this is how I solve.

-White cross
-F2L
-Solve yellow cross on top
-I then use 1 alg to switch two switch left and bottom edges so all 4 are correct
-Then I use 1 alg or it’s mirror to move 3 corners clockwise or counter clockwise
-Once corners are where they need to be I use R’ D’ R D to orient any corners that need to be flipped




So I am starting to learn 2 step OLL & PLL. I have most of the 2step OLL algs memorized and I’ve been looking to start with 2 step PLL but I am confused about what 2 step PLL actually is..

Some guides say to permute the corners first. They say to look for headlights and put them in the back and perform one alg to get headlights on all sides. If there are no headlights to start you have to do the alg twice. That seams easy enough

I also see guides for 2 step PLL that have like 3 or 4 algs for moving the corners around first.. depending if you have 1 correct corner, 2 adjacent correct corners, etc

I guess I am curious why would I need to figure out which corners go where and use more algs.. seems way more confusing than just looking for headlights and doing one alg

So I guess I am wondering what is the proper way to do two step PLL? and the quickest way.


Thanks!!
 

newtonbase

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Assuming you have the top oriented correctly you will use an A perm to cycle 3 corners. If there are no headlights then the alg will create them. If there's one set then the alg will solve the corners if it moves them in the right direction. If not then do it again. Same with the U perm for edges. If there is no bar (headlights with a matching edge between them) then the alg will create one. If there is a bar then the alg will solve the cube on the first or 2nd attempt. Later on you will recognise the direction the pieces need to move and you can learn the other versions of the algs that move the pieces in the opposite direction.

Bad Mephisto's site is worth a visit.
 
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Assuming you have the top oriented correctly you will use an A perm to cycle 3 corners. If there are no headlights then the alg will create them. If there's one set then the alg will solve the corners if it moves them in the right direction. If not then do it again. Same with the U perm for edges. If there is no bar (headlights with a matching edge between them) then the alg will create one. If there is a bar then the alg will solve the cube on the first or 2nd attempt. Later on you will recognise the direction the pieces need to move and you can learn the other versions of the algs that move the pieces in the opposite direction.

Bad Mephisto's site is worth a visit.

I have checked out is site and guides multiple times and that is what gets me confused. I guess the part of two look I am confused about is corner permutation only. I saw some guides like Bad Mephisto's that show multiple algorithms for just the corners. Some guides have 3 or 4 algorithms to learn for the corners. There are algs to rotate 3 pieces clockwise, counter clockwise. swap adjacent corners, etc..

I then came across two guides that use a different approach. Instead of really looking at what corners need to be swapped with what corners they say to just look for edit lights. If you find headlights you place them in the back and perform and alg. If you have no corners you do the alg, place the 2 corners you get in the back, and then do the same alg again. This way seems a lot easier than learning multiple algs just for the corners and trying to look at a scrambled top layer figuring out what goes where.

Here are the two guides with this approach.
http://loki.ist.unomaha.edu/~jtrimm/project/ollpll.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMb7hOAgmng

So according to that I only need one single algorithm to permute the corners and I either apply it once or twice.
I am confused as to why there are other more complicated methods for 2 step PLL corner permutation. What am I missing??


Also as I was typing this I found another algorithm which I have not seen in any other guides for 2 look PLL. Once you orient the last layer lets say you don't have headlight. This algorithm will permute all corners in once shot so this seems like the best method for corners?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw_qc7X_yX4

Sorry if I am missing something basic here.. just don't get why there are so many different ways or doing 2 look PLL. Eventually I will learn full PLL but right now I want to get as fast as possible with 2 look so before I learn all the algs I need to pick the best method and then start there. Thanks
 

Seanliu

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So I am very new to cubing all together. I started about a month ago so I still have tons to learn. Currently my PB is 52 seconds and I use parts of CFOP and beginners method. Currently this is how I solve.

-White cross
-F2L
-Solve yellow cross on top
-I then use 1 alg to switch two switch left and bottom edges so all 4 are correct
-Then I use 1 alg or it’s mirror to move 3 corners clockwise or counter clockwise
-Once corners are where they need to be I use R’ D’ R D to orient any corners that need to be flipped




So I am starting to learn 2 step OLL & PLL. I have most of the 2step OLL algs memorized and I’ve been looking to start with 2 step PLL but I am confused about what 2 step PLL actually is..

Some guides say to permute the corners first. They say to look for headlights and put them in the back and perform one alg to get headlights on all sides. If there are no headlights to start you have to do the alg twice. That seams easy enough

I also see guides for 2 step PLL that have like 3 or 4 algs for moving the corners around first.. depending if you have 1 correct corner, 2 adjacent correct corners, etc

I guess I am curious why would I need to figure out which corners go where and use more algs.. seems way more confusing than just looking for headlights and doing one alg

So I guess I am wondering what is the proper way to do two step PLL? and the quickest way.


Thanks!!

This is probably the easiest way to do PLL. If you're still confused, check out ParadoxCubing's Beginner CFOP videos if you haven't already. Here's the links:

OLL tutorial

PLL tutorial
 

Douf

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I promise I've looked around, but I'm not understanding what algorithms exactly make up 2-look PLL. Could someone please make a concise list for me? Even BadMephisto's sheet on it seems to be missing some cases that show up for me (I'm sure there's a reason for that and I'm missing the point). It just seems there is a clear-cut 2-look OLL procedure but it's not quite as clear-cut for the PLL. Just wondering why. Thank you for helping.
 

PurpleBanana

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First you permute corners, using T perm (or similar) for an adjacent swap and Y perm for a diagonal swap. Then you permute edges, using one of four PLLs: H, Z, or either U.

What cases are you getting that I haven't described?
 

Douf

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First you permute corners, using T perm (or similar) for an adjacent swap and Y perm for a diagonal swap. Then you permute edges, using one of four PLLs: H, Z, or either U.

What cases are you getting that I haven't described?
I'm a noob so I'm sure there are none. I'm just trying to wrap my head around it for the first time. I'll need to work on recognizing cases. I just OLL is easier because you're just looking at yellow patterns on top. PLL will take more time and learning and practice. If you have any tips for 2-look PLL I would appreciate that, but it seems pretty straightforward now. Thanks for your help!
 
Last edited:

One Wheel

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I learned an A-perm, which is easy to mirror before a Y-perm. If you can do both A-perms I think you can solve all the corners. H and Z are fun: the ones I use alternate M and U moves: just memorize 2122212 for an H-perm and 2121122212 for Z. When you start coming across more complicated cases that are frustrating with 2-look just learn the alg for that case, and you'll have full PLL pretty soon. It took me probably 4-6 months to learn full PLL, but I'm a little slow.

My A-perm is (l U' R) (D2) (R' U R) (D2) (R2) each part in parentheses is one motion. Not perfect, but easy to remember. Just remember what motions you make with each hand in the first and third groups, and do those motions with the other hand to mirror it.
 

Douf

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I learned an A-perm, which is easy to mirror before a Y-perm. If you can do both A-perms I think you can solve all the corners. H and Z are fun: the ones I use alternate M and U moves: just memorize 2122212 for an H-perm and 2121122212 for Z. When you start coming across more complicated cases that are frustrating with 2-look just learn the alg for that case, and you'll have full PLL pretty soon. It took me probably 4-6 months to learn full PLL, but I'm a little slow.

My A-perm is (l U' R) (D2) (R' U R) (D2) (R2) each part in parentheses is one motion. Not perfect, but easy to remember. Just remember what motions you make with each hand in the first and third groups, and do those motions with the other hand to mirror it.
OK thank you. I think it's the mirror cases that are throwing me off. I'm new to recognizing that and knowing the correct sequence of moves. I'm sure that's basic, but I guess I shouldn't rely on someone spelling it out for me on the internet! Your tips are helpful. Here is a question for example. PurpleBanana listed T perm (or similar) for an adjacent swap and Y perm for a diagonal swap in the first look. BadMephisto's pdf has an E-perm in there too. Is that counted as 'something similar'? Also, he didn't mention A-perms in 2-look PLL at all. What am I missing here? I don't mean to go on, but I'm full of questions. And I understand this is the 'one-answer question' forum, so I'll let it go now.
Just grasping for advice. Thanks again guys.
 

One Wheel

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I learned an E-perm later. It's a little more complicated than a T-perm, and I was (and remain) lazy. Just remember that when you learn a T-perm it's almost identical to a J-perm, and an E-perm is almost identical to a V-perm, at least the algs on BadMephisto's sheet (which is what I learned off of). That way you can learn 4 algs for the price of about 2 1/2.
 
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