• Welcome to the Speedsolving.com, home of the web's largest puzzle community!
    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access to join discussions and access our other features.

    Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community of 40,000+ people from around the world today!

    If you are already a member, simply login to hide this message and begin participating in the community!

Random Cubing Discussion

Tim Major

Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
5,381
Location
Melbourne, Australia
WCA
2010MAJO01
Odder was at the comp and told me it was legit. His overall PB was an 11, but he got like an easy XXcross or something and then sexysledge into PLL skip. I think that's what happened anyway.

I thought that's what he was told at the comp, not that he actually witnessed it. Similarly with how the 4.41 was "XXXcross OLL skip J-perm"
 

ottozing

Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
3,289
Location
Canberra, Australia
WCA
2012MCNE01
YouTube
Visit Channel
I thought that's what he was told at the comp, not that he actually witnessed it. Similarly with how the 4.41 was "XXXcross OLL skip J-perm"

Not that similar imo.

Firstly, a high 7 with a much luckier LL by a guy hovering around sub 20 seems way more plausible than a mid 4 by a similar person. Secondly, the competition itself wasn't prone to something as problematic as this like Perry Open was from what I can tell. This meaning faking a high 7 probably wasn't as easy as putting up a scrambled cube that you memorized an easy solution to (It's noteworthy that the 7 was the last solve of his average).

Basically, this guy getting a legit 7 seems more likely than him slipping a fake 7 through a well run competition.
 

Tim Major

Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
5,381
Location
Melbourne, Australia
WCA
2010MAJO01
Not that similar imo.

Firstly, a high 7 with a much luckier LL by a guy hovering around sub 20 seems way more plausible than a mid 4 by a similar person. Secondly, the competition itself wasn't prone to something as problematic as this like Perry Open was from what I can tell. This meaning faking a high 7 probably wasn't as easy as putting up a scrambled cube that you memorized an easy solution to (It's noteworthy that the 7 was the last solve of his average).

Basically, this guy getting a legit 7 seems more likely than him slipping a fake 7 through a well run competition.

There are definitely ways to cheat even very well organised competitions, but yes I realise the situations are a little different. At the end of the day, it's impossible to prove either way and the benefit of the doubt has to go to the competitor. For example, maybe he switched cubes after his 4th solve, the one he gave was half-scrambled, when it got to the scramble table, some runner assumed it was scrambled and took it to a table.

Anyway, the guy who asked about it got a couple of answers at least, everything I've said is pure speculation, I just don't see a 18 second solver getting an official 7 in an event like 3x3.
 

Isaac Lai

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
1,329
Location
Singapore
WCA
2015LAII01
There are definitely ways to cheat even very well organised competitions, but yes I realise the situations are a little different. At the end of the day, it's impossible to prove either way and the benefit of the doubt has to go to the competitor. For example, maybe he switched cubes after his 4th solve, the one he gave was half-scrambled, when it got to the scramble table, some runner assumed it was scrambled and took it to a table.

Anyway, the guy who asked about it got a couple of answers at least, everything I've said is pure speculation, I just don't see a 18 second solver getting an official 7 in an event like 3x3.

The thing is, the fact that it stayed as the NR of a relatively developed and prominent country (cubing wise) means that it is probably legit, because people (much like us) would probably have done an investigation on that solve, and they would have found that it was fake if he cheated.
 

Tim Major

Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
5,381
Location
Melbourne, Australia
WCA
2010MAJO01
The thing is, the fact that it stayed as the NR of a relatively developed and prominent country (cubing wise) means that it is probably legit, because people (much like us) would probably have done an investigation on that solve, and they would have found that it was fake if he cheated.

But if there's no video or reliable witnesses, there's no way they could prove it was fake. If they tried investigating by showing him the scramble, all he would have to do (hypothetically, if he did cheat) would be to say 'nup can't remember my solution' which would be perfectly acceptable.
 

Isaac Lai

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
1,329
Location
Singapore
WCA
2015LAII01

Tim Major

Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
5,381
Location
Melbourne, Australia
WCA
2010MAJO01
I played around with the scramble and got two free pairs on yellow cross. Not sure if it means anything but it could(?) be rearranged to form a XXcross.

I'm sure on either scramble there are nice solutions. But for an 18 second solver to get a 7 that had a double X-cross? It has to be a pretty obvious double X-cross, and the entire solve would have to be probably 30 moves at most.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
2,987
Location
Webster Groves, MO
WCA
2013BARK01
Why can't we just trust the guy got a good solve?

Yeah, there is always a chance to get lucky. I got a pretty amazing solve for me (at the time) during Lawrence Spring 2015 with a 15.03 average. The time was 11.90:

11.90 B2 F2 U2 R2 U L2 R2 B2 U F' U F' U2 B L2 R U2 F L U

y2 x
U' L D' L2 y2 x' L F' L' D'
R' U' R d L' U L
[R U R' U']2 R U R'
y R' U R
R U' R' U2 y' R' U' R
U2 l' U' L U l F' L' F
U y R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F'

And I got lucky, by doing something badly. The cross sucked, and the OLL was from a weird angle. But if I hadn't done those, it would have been a much higher time. I got a T perm, a free pair, and some easy F2L cases. People can get lucky.
 
Last edited:

TDM

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
7,006
Location
Oxfordshire, UK
WCA
2013MEND03
YouTube
Visit Channel
Ok, I don't believe it now.

http://iwca.jp/competition/scrambles/competitionId/DanishOpen2014/eventId/333

Either the scramble is:

L' U' R' L U2 L B' D L' F L2 B' R2 F' D2 F' B' R2 L2
or
U' L2 U2 B2 U R2 B2 D' B2 U R2 F' L2 D' B D' B L' B2 U

Neither seem easy to get a 7 on for a 18 second solver.
There was some discussion about this a while ago, closer to when it happened:
L' U' R' L U2 L B' D L' F L2 B' R2 F' D2 F' B' R2 L2.

but he can't reconstruct the solution.
after some minutes trying i found this solution with the descriped LL:
y2 R U D' L' B' D2 B
U F' R' F U F
R2 U R2
y U2 R U' R' U R U R'
R U R' U' R' F R F' U'
 
Last edited:

Tim Major

Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
5,381
Location
Melbourne, Australia
WCA
2010MAJO01
That just doesn't feel like a speedsolve to me, seems like a nub FMC solution, and it also doesn't match his description (triple X-cross instead of double). The first 13 moves are so well thought out, but there's no way he saw that far ahead so I feel like those 13 moves would take 4-5 seconds minimum, leaving an 18 second solver 2-3 seconds to do 20 moves. If his solution exists I don't think it could be that one, it'd be more likely that his double X-cross was mostly luck, rather than planned out, because otherwise the TPS just wouldn't be there. I wonder what punishment, if any, he'd receive apart from the stripping of his record if he came now and admitted to cheating
 
Top