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mDiPalma

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Jul 12, 2011
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STEP 1: SCRAMBLE IN SOLVING ORIENTATION:
F D2 B2 U B' D F' U2 B2 U2 R2 L2 U2 B2 L2 F' B D B' U L U2 B2 L2 D2

STEP 2: PROFIT
 

Pyjam

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No better than 31 HTM

F
R L2 U L U R2
U L U' L2
R' U' R2 U R' U' L'
U2 R U2 R'
L' B L F' L' B' L F U'

Or 22 + PLL R
F
U' R U' R' U L2
U2 R' U' R2
U' L' U2 L U R U R' U R U'
 
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porkynator

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Scrambles with easy EOLines are so funny to play with :D In 10 minutes I got a 26 HTM / 24 STM solve, but it's too hardcore to be still called ZZ...
F //EOLine
U' L R' U' R2 U2 R //Right pseudo 3x2x1
U L' U L2 U' L2 U' //F2L
U' L2 D L' D' L2 U D L' D' R2 L2 //ZBLL (COLL that happened to solve that case
 
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TwisterTimmy

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Dec 15, 2012
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Hey guys, anyone here knows any practice tips on combining EO and Line together? Since i tend to always do them separately and I think it would help alot if I could "combine" them together as one step (EOLine) as said in the thread about getting sub 15 using ZZ. As you can tell, I'm still not exactly sure HOW in the first place one would manage to always form an EOline while at the same time orienting all the edges, thus making them one step. So please help! Anything would be greatly appreciated! :D

Thanks! :)
 

aznanimedude

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Feb 23, 2012
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doing it is actually more like
while you EO, try to predict what will happen to the edges that form your line, like in my case it's G/W and B/W. and then from there, it's just make sure that after you do EO, they're on opposite faces, either one is in F the other B, or one is in L, the other R, that way you can easily just put them in the bottom face and then do a D turn and BOOM, line's done in one flawless motion from finishing EO

but i'm guilty of not doing this all the time, although i do make it a point to know where those two line edges are so i can quickly just form the line after EO
 

mDiPalma

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In my experience, ZZ tends to be somewhat more efficient (3~4 moves) if you do NOT plan out the entire EOLine during inspection.

To try and reduce the amount of moves I use, I only plan out the EO-phase during inspection, while tracking/predicting where the line-edges will end up (as azn said). My EOLine is never set in stone by the end of inspection time, and I would never want it to be. You have to be on your feet to take advantage of any pairs/almostpairs that come up during the EOline solution. By preserving/creating easy pairs during the EOLine, you get a jump start on your ZZF2L for a minimal move/time investment.

That's just my approach. It's likely a flawed one though.
 

Petro Leum

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In my experience, ZZ tends to be somewhat more efficient (3~4 moves) if you do NOT plan out the entire EOLine during inspection.

To try and reduce the amount of moves I use, I only plan out the EO-phase during inspection, while tracking/predicting where the line-edges will end up (as azn said). My EOLine is never set in stone by the end of inspection time, and I would never want it to be. You have to be on your feet to take advantage of any pairs/almostpairs that come up during the EOline solution. By preserving/creating easy pairs during the EOLine, you get a jump start on your ZZF2L for a minimal move/time investment.

That's just my approach. It's likely a flawed one though.

no, its good. planning out full EO+Line or at least EO+ track line gets you faster tps at the beginnign though ,resulting in an equal tiem with probably a bit more moves in the end. it all overlaps though, anyway, you will fidn yourself using both approaches.


One more thing: i have given up trying to learn to plan out EOLine+1 or XEOline, not because i just cant do it, but because whenever i can do it and i manage to do it, i realize i need waaaaay more moves than with EOLine and then F2L. Thats because its hard to plan out optimal stuff that is going to happen after EO - for that, you would have to predict ALL the edges and corners and chose the best start, and thats just too much of an effort to use. So what you will do automatically, is, chose a pair which you plan out every single solve, and predict only the edges corners/for that approach. this way you can lsoe many moves.

Oh and, mDiPalma and aznanimedude, what does the x/7 in your signatures mean?
 

PianoCube

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May 18, 2012
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Not sure if this fits best here or in "The Solve Critique Thread", but I post it here.

I'm planning to switch to ZZ for OH solving (maby two handed too if I really start to love it), and started practicing some over a week ago. Before I put a lot of work in it, I want to know if I'm doing it right, or if I should change something.

1:
Scramble: D F2 D2 R2 D' R B2 U2 L B2 D F2 R D2 U2 R2 F' U
EO-line: x2 D’ B D’ L’ D’
F2L: U L’ U L R2 U R L U’ L’ U’ R U R’ U L’ U2 L2 U’ L U2 L2 U L U2 L’ U’ L
OLL: U (r U R’ U’ r’ F R F’)
PLL: U2 (R’ U2 R U2 R’ F R U R’ U’ R’ F’ R2) U2

2:
Scramble: L2 U2 L2 B L2 R2 D' L2 U' R U2 L2 B' U2 L' R' U' L
EO-line: x2 R F U L B’ R’ L’ D’
F2L: L R2 U2 L U L U’ L’ U R U’ R’ U R U2 R2 U’ R’ U2 R’ U R U’ R’U R
OLL: (R2 D R’ U2 R D’ R’ U2 R’)
PLL: U2 (R’ U’ R y R2 u R’ U R U’ R u’ R2) U’

3:
Scramble: L2 F2 U' F2 D F' L' U' F L2 U2 R' D R2 B' D' B R'
EO-line: x2 U’ R L’ U F R D
F2L: U’ R’ U’ R2 L’ U2 L U’ L U2 L U’ L’ U R U2 R’ U R U’ R’
OLL: (L U L’ U L U2 L’)
PLL: U (R’ U2 R U2 R’ F R U R’ U’ R’ F’ R2) U

These solves were not done during speedsolving, I just wrote down the solution while solving. I would probably have done some some mistakes and extra moves during normal solves.
 

mDiPalma

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@D F2 D2 R2 D' R B2 U2 L B2 D F2 R D2 U2 R2 F' U

your EO-line: x2 D’ B D’ L’ D’
"on your feet" EO-line: x2 D’ B D’ L2 U2 L D’

your continuation: U L’ U L R2 U R L U’ L’ U’ R U R’ U L’ U2 L2 U’ L U2 L2 U L U2 L’ U’ L
"on your feet" continuation: R' L U2 L' U' L2 U L U R' U R' U R2 U' R2 U' R U' R' U' R

This is just one example where thinking "on your feet" during an unplanned Line-phase can save you ~4 moves during a solve.
 

Petro Leum

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Not sure if this fits best here or in "The Solve Critique Thread", but I post it here.

I'm planning to switch to ZZ for OH solving (maby two handed too if I really start to love it), and started practicing some over a week ago. Before I put a lot of work in it, I want to know if I'm doing it right, or if I should change something.

1:
Scramble: D F2 D2 R2 D' R B2 U2 L B2 D F2 R D2 U2 R2 F' U
EO-line: x2 D’ B D’ L’ D’
F2L: U L’ U L R2 U R L U’ L’ U’ R U R’ U L’ U2 L2 U’ L U2 L2 U L U2 L’ U’ L
OLL: U (r U R’ U’ r’ F R F’)
PLL: U2 (R’ U2 R U2 R’ F R U R’ U’ R’ F’ R2) U2

2:
Scramble: L2 U2 L2 B L2 R2 D' L2 U' R U2 L2 B' U2 L' R' U' L
EO-line: x2 R F U L B’ R’ L’ D’
F2L: L R2 U2 L U L U’ L’ U R U’ R’ U R U2 R2 U’ R’ U2 R’ U R U’ R’U R
OLL: (R2 D R’ U2 R D’ R’ U2 R’)
PLL: U2 (R’ U’ R y R2 u R’ U R U’ R u’ R2) U’

3:
Scramble: L2 F2 U' F2 D F' L' U' F L2 U2 R' D R2 B' D' B R'
EO-line: x2 U’ R L’ U F R D
F2L: U’ R’ U’ R2 L’ U2 L U’ L U2 L U’ L’ U R U2 R’ U R U’ R’
OLL: (L U L’ U L U2 L’)
PLL: U (R’ U2 R U2 R’ F R U R’ U’ R’ F’ R2) U

These solves were not done during speedsolving, I just wrote down the solution while solving. I would probably have done some some mistakes and extra moves during normal solves.

You are doing it right. these were some very good solves. most of these things i wouldve done exactly the same way.

some things i noticed: it would have been better to chose extra hard scrambles, all of the EOLines you showed were pretty easy.
At least for onehanded, try to avoid double turns during F2L.
Eoline on the first solve: I suggest to replace the B with a B' - this would bring the LD Edge where on the L Face.

If you think your speedsolves are way worse, just post a video and reconstruct the solves or ask someone to reconstruct them.
 

aznanimedude

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i was about to say, i envy your nice EO-lines xD
looks like you have the right idea though

edit: also LOL MATT SAW MY JOKE IN RANDOM CUBING
 
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PianoCube

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Thanks for the feedback :)

At the moment, it is often difficult enough to plan the EO, and only the line if EO is easy. Thinking about where the LD and RD edges ends up and such things is a bit too much atm, but I will do more of that when EO-line becomes more automatic.

I should probably practice a lot of slow solves where I try to find more "shortcuts". The freedom during f2l is probably the ting I like the most about ZZ, even though I'm still quite slow at it. Linear fewest moves is also a fun challange :p
 

aznanimedude

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the freedom is also some of the biggest mindblow. try a few slow solves where you don't do corner + 2nd layer edge first, do corner + cross edge and then pair it with the 2nd layer edge to form a 1x2x2, can be a huge eye opener sometimes ahahaha.

glad you seem to be liking it, ZZ is quite a fun method
 

SAICubed

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ZZ Variants

Recently i have been really interested in exploring the ZZ variants mostly ZZ-a , c, d, b because those seem the most interesting. I do know most of the variants have been explored quite a bit, although i believe that maybe with enough research a slightly altered variant could be created and possibly become very beneficial to many cubers. I personally don't know enough on the topic to get to in depth, on the other hand i have been doing quite a bit of research and might have a few ideas. Currently its just a few sheets of paper that's a mess. However once i get it organized i will post it on this thread. If any of you have any ideas or have previously done research on this topic please post a reply i would be very interested to see your findings, as this topic can be discussed for a long time before it could possibly come close to the speed current F2L+LL, and F2L and LL seperatly are reaching. Hopefully in time this could be further explored and quite possibly become very beneficial to the community. Any ideas you have would be great to see so i hope this can go somewhere thanks!
 

porkynator

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It's nice to see someone willing to find new variants! I'll share my random idea I had a while ago, just in case someone is interested. Not that it is something incredibly good, but maybe it will help you thinking of something better.
The idea is the following: no variants up to F2L minus 1 CE pair + EO (you can do this with Petrus, ZZ, Heise or whatever). Than You build a 2x2x1 block on the U layer, and you're left with 4 corners and 3 edges to solve. Now I don't know how many cases there would be to be learnt (grammar?) in order to solve this with one algorithm, but less than the ZBLLs. Also, you can solve all of them < R, U, D > or < R, U, L >.
Also, are you familiar with Heise method? Step 3 can help you understand what can be done intuitively after F2L-1+EO.
Last, and maybe least, there's my idea for ZZ-d, but actually mDiPalma has worked on it more than me after that post, and he has used it for a while, so you should ask him if you want to know more about it.
 
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aznanimedude

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Feb 23, 2012
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i don't think he even really uses ZZ-rainbow anymore, i think he went back to COLL+EPLL or something. that idea you bring up is mildly intriguing though

also your variation strangely sounds kinda like waht Snyder v2 is....i think? well not quite like it, but it sounded kinda similar lol.
 
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