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"Relax a bit" discussion

phases

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That's a nice little welcoming basket you've put together there, pen. You show 'em!

Ya'll kill me with this 'search first search first search first search first" kick you're on. I can see the value in it, so the 5 of you reading this now and itching to rip into me - hold yer horses, I'm not disagreeing with you..

..but goodness guys, some people just prefer a little interaction and want to be a part of the community rather than have to sit on the outside and look in until they come up with a question unique enough to have not yet been answered.

Maybe after this post he *did* search around and saw how a lot of people get treated around here, which would explain why he hasn't been back since. (or maybe he gave up on the cube, who knows) Like Rob, in his thread showing the new video he made. He got nothing but "You're doing it wrong! That's not advanced! Your title is inaccurate!!" and hasn't been back since.

Or maybe he's just some 10 or 11 year old guy (which is a whole separate debate imho on whether or not he should even be roaming the interwebz unmonitored) who just found this place and posted his question thinking he was allowed to do that, at least it got put in the right spot.

I've nearly left this place and not looked back I don't know many times now. But I joined for a reason and keep hoping it'll get a little friendlier around here. Maybe it will maybe it won't, we'll see. I've typed several replies like this one, saved a couple in my drafts, and never posted them. Maybe I'll post this one.

Maybe its because I'm surrounded by a bunch of kids who want to act all high 'n mighty because they can solve a cube in under 20 seconds, so they think they run this place. Because everyone else are "noobs". (Come on people, how high and mighty do you have to be before you start calling people "noobs"?) I don't know, I haven't really analyzed it too much but that's my guess.

Here, for the fun of it, allow me to post a draft I'd made the other day:

-------------

There's an edit button to edit your post so that you don't double post. Please do so from now on as many people will start to get aggravated.

Dude, his posts are an hour apart. What good is an edit if all the people that were active in the moment already read his post? A second post causes people to go back and actually see what he wanted them to see. An edit is more for "oops lemme correct that" or "oh snap, lemme see if I can get something edited in right quick before everyone see's it." or modify a master post on some thread regularly referenced.

.. Seriously - and I'm sure I'm about to catch a lot of flack for this - but this is such an anal, nitpicky, fighting all the time, group. It's insane. I'm constantly reading posts where people are just being snobby, or needlessly rude, or jumping on people over some stupid little detail.. all the time.

I don't know if it's the admin/mods intention to have the mentality level where it is, or if there's just a lack of people setting examples around here or what, but good god, some of you guys are just ridiculously rude.

And, just so you know, I hate to make this post. I really do. I've been fighting my urge to say something for a week now. Why? Because I'll probably become the guy no one likes or I'll get some lecture from a team member that doesn't agree with me..or I'll just start some sorta flame war with the few of you who I strike a nerve with - and then I won't get any help in the future. Which I hate to see happen because I joined this site for a reason. I want to learn to speedsolve and probably will need the help of the members here. But - and as much as I'm sure it'll hurt all your feelings - I'm not sure I even WANT to be around this group, at this rate.

(I'm talkin' far past the post I just quoted.)

Anyway. Go ahead and flame away. Tear apart my post sentence by sentence and get all on my spelling and grammar.. Demand specific examples, report the post, you know.. whatever.

The bottom line is, some of you guys need to relax a little bit.

-------------

And someone jumped on me the other day for posting something fun and silly in an off topic 'fun and silly' thread, because I didn't post it in some "comic" thread that is apparently out there somewhere. For the love of god..

Anyway. Now that I've got that out of my system. There's a reason why I've typed crap out like this a couple times. It may not be because I'm overly forgiving, it may be because in general this group needs to loosen up a little bit. You're going to lose all your decent members if they all feel the way I do about half the posts they read. And a I barely read any! (in comparison to how many are are made). Like I said in the draft I'd posted above - I'm talking far beyond the post I'd just quoted. Hell, I even see this crap coming from mods. The people who are supposed to represent the site.

/dons his flame suit, "Sigh, ok, go for it..." But - and as stereotypical of a thing this may be to say - I can't guarantee I'm going to take further part in the "debate" I may or may not have just started. So don't bother with "oh yeah phases, well I want to see specific examples of blah blah blah otherwise everything you've said is null and void blah blah" because I'm not going to buy into that. I've said my piece. My intention now is to continue to do my thing.. be decent to people around me, try to help when there's a question I can actually help with, and ignore the *******'s the best I can. If I choose to respond to something I will. If not, I won't.

Edit: Just to throw it out there. FYI, my point in this rant wasn't to challenge the search rule. Though it did start it. Want people to use the search? Fine, politely suggest it when you answer their question. But my point was to voice how I feel about how rude many of the members are around here for no real reason. Being civil or, gasp, even nice to the people around you is a basic part of (living a decent) life. It's really not that hard and it works wonders for a community. Give it a shot.
 
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Daniel Wu

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I think the fault is on both sides. New people who come here not searching and ask a question are partially to blame. But then again, if you were new to speedcubing and stumble upon this site, you might not have the patience to lurk in the shadows and watch how things work for a while. But at the same time, USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION is annoying and mostly not helpful. It's a forum, not the wiki. If you want new cubers who aren't n00bs, you have to set an example. Lighten up and don't be so cold about everything. I know there's a point where there becomes too many off the same threads and stuff like that, but come on. Really.
 

mcciff2112

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I completely agree with phases (props for that amazing rant you just wrote :p)

People here really need to lighten up. I understand that people have seen this before, many, many times. But why should this guy not get personal attention that someone that asked this question 3 years ago got? I wasn't around for the opening of this site, but from what I've heard, people were actually helpful to new members and gave them advice instead of flaming them until they left the site. Sure, that thread from 3 years ago is still around, lurking in the back end of thousands of threads, but the information provided at that time may be outdated and not what this person is looking for.

It amazes me how mad people get about this stuff. We're talking about helping other cubers out. When someone asks me how I solve a cube in the real world, I don't yell "Google is your friend!!" and walk away, I jump to help them, because I just love helping people out. I know a lot of you also like to help others when it comes to cubing, so why should this case be treated any differently? Bottom line, sometimes personal attention has more of an affect because the starter knows the information given is directed to them, not some other guy who posted the same type of thread over a year ago.

You have to understand, I'm not disagreeing with any of you here. I agree this person should have used the search function, and we really should let people know. But that doesn't mean we have to post six different threads leading to the same topic of threads. People should be nice enough to take the time to help out, then at the end of their explanation, kindly tell the person that the search function can be very helpful and they should use it next time before posting a thread about a commonly discussed topic.

I think it's about time this was discussed, I've been trying to ignore it for way too long. We need to get back to the way it used to be back when I joined. People were a lot nicer then, there wasn't flaming for every little thing (except for Stefan :p who has been doing much better with that recently :))

It seems that a lot of people, especially the mods, have taken that route and started being jerks to anyone who is in search of help but hasn't read and followed every rule that goes along with this site. Now, I'm not saying that they're right because they didn't do what they're supposed to, but that doesn't mean that they should be punished the way they are. As I said earlier, maybe an answer to their question and then a warning about what they did would cross them as an appropriate way to deal with it. Maybe they would start following the rules since they were kindly answered and then given a little more advice as to how to use this site properly.
 
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brunson

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People here really need to lighten up. I understand that people have seen this before, many, many times. But why should this guy not get personal attention that someone that asked this question 3 years ago got?
If someone asked a question that was asked once three years ago, I don't think there'd be a whole lot of people jumping in with "search". But "I'm new and need help getting faster" gets asked every other week. Some of the members here have spent a great deal of time putting together sticky posts and wiki articles specifically to help newcomers and beginners. We *want* to help, but someone has to show a little self motivation for me, personally, to take an interest in them.

Maybe they would start following the rules since they were kindly answered and then given a little more advice as to how to use this site properly.
Nice idea, in theory. In practice, seldom the case.
 

phases

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Thanks for the replies, appreciate your time.

However, I think (brunson) you're missing, or at least not acknowledging, *my* point. I feel I need to clarify - so.. a reply.

Like I said, this goes far beyond this particular thread, this particular topic. Take a look around. It's everywhere. It's not at all limited to "I'm a beginner what next".

<sidetrack>
However, I guess while I'm here.. in this particular case.. I think by someone picking up the cube, learning it, then deciding they want to do better, finding a site, signing up, and making a post explaining what methods they are using and that they want to be faster - probably qualifies as "a little motivation".

The user even specifically asked for videos, or tips, that people (who are here to give advice) recommend. It's not as if they said some broad "I'm new what do I do to be better." He told where he was, what method he was using, and what videos/tips might be best for him, as an individual.

Anybody can use google, anyone can research, anyone can find an answer to nearly any question given the time and energy. But, the entire point in forums like this is to help take the guess work out of what you're trying to figure out, to get the individual help you might need, and to in turn to help people who are reaching out and asking for it.

It's a community, not a static collective of information, remember?
</sidetrack>

I didn't intend for his post to have to get dissected for people to try to come to an agreement about how he should have been treated. It just happened to be his post that got my initial rant.

Again, this goes well beyond this particular thread/topic. It's not just about how people treat the "I'm new, what next?" question. It's about how a fair amount of the regulars act, in general, toward other regulars/"noobs".
 
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brunson

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I wish people would lurk more. I was young once and the internet was new(ish). It was my policy to hang out in a Usenet channel or a mailing list and get a feel for the people and the conversation before posting. You only get one chance to make a first impression.
 

mark3

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Thank you so much for posting this. I tried to express something similar in a paragraph about a month ago and was unsuccessful. If you discourage content from being posted, a forum dies.
 

bwatkins

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I have noticed although there are tons of "my method/F2L is slow, help me improve" threads, most all of them have a small specific detail. Perhaps its these very minute individuality's that cause multiple threads on the "same" topic to be created. A lot of people would like interaction/feedback on their individual problem, perhaps that was not answered in similar threads. USING THE SEARCH FUNCTION can cause a thread to be created, not always avoiding a "useless thread"
 

Cride5

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I have noticed although there are tons of "my method/F2L is slow, help me improve" threads, most all of them have a small specific detail. Perhaps its these very minute individuality's that cause multiple threads on the "same" topic to be created. A lot of people would like interaction/feedback on their individual problem, perhaps that was not answered in similar threads. USING THE SEARCH FUNCTION can cause a thread to be created, not always avoiding a "useless thread"

Perhaps a live chat system would help with individuals' questions. I'd certainly be happy to contribute/help in a chat system.
 

bwatkins

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I have noticed although there are tons of "my method/F2L is slow, help me improve" threads, most all of them have a small specific detail. Perhaps its these very minute individuality's that cause multiple threads on the "same" topic to be created. A lot of people would like interaction/feedback on their individual problem, perhaps that was not answered in similar threads. USING THE SEARCH FUNCTION can cause a thread to be created, not always avoiding a "useless thread"

Perhaps a live chat system would help with individuals' questions. I'd certainly be happy to contribute/help in a chat system.
that could be useful. Most of these simialar threads are small and short anyway...
 

ChrisBird

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I have noticed although there are tons of "my method/F2L is slow, help me improve" threads, most all of them have a small specific detail. Perhaps its these very minute individuality's that cause multiple threads on the "same" topic to be created. A lot of people would like interaction/feedback on their individual problem, perhaps that was not answered in similar threads. USING THE SEARCH FUNCTION can cause a thread to be created, not always avoiding a "useless thread"

Perhaps a live chat system would help with individuals' questions. I'd certainly be happy to contribute/help in a chat system.
that could be useful. Most of these simialar threads are small and short anyway...

--redacted--

Woo. Win.
 
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Cride5

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Aaah, see it didn't turn up in the search function :p

Maybe we should promote the IRC channel a bit more .. possibly make it a bit more visible.
 

pentrixter

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I understand where you are coming from. Interaction and discussion are functions of a forum. But reference is also another function of the forum. Asking which cube is the best or how to get faster are things that you can look up. That's what stickies are for.

I'm sure many forum old timers are tired of copy and pasting "there is no best cube, it's subjective" or "learn full CFOP and look ahead" to generic and repetitive questions like "which cube is best?" or "how do you get faster?"
 

StachuK1992

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Please. Don't 'sponsor' #.
At times, it's filled with enough noobs already. I rarely let myself in. I just don't think I'm 'good enough,' speedsolving-wise, to join in the conversations.

Plus, most of the conversations aren't even cubing-related.

Perhaps a #speedsolving chat would be more appropriate. Newcomers, please, don't even look for # unless you are competent.
 

Cride5

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Lol, agreed. I don't think that channel will be very sutiable for beginner questions :rolleyes:

How about replacing that advert side bar on the right with some kind of shoutbox, with the title "Beginner questions answered".
 

pentrixter

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LOL. People don't even read the "read before posting threads." How can you expect them to read the shoutbox?
 
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