Speedcubing Translation of BLD System

[dChan]

I came across this interesting message from Ron van Bruchem just the other day:

Hi friends,

So which do we have?

Corner permutations:
R'FR'B2RF'R'B2R2 (basic + inverse)
(L2 U) (B2 U')*2 (L2 U) (B2 U B2 U')
[RB'R'B]x3 (13)(27)
UL2UR2 U'L2UR2 U2 (Ron)
U'R2UR2UF2 U'R2U'R2UF2 (Ron)

Edge permutations:
RU'RURURU'R'U'R2 (+ inverse, mirrored F/B, inverted mirrored F/B. These
algorithms are really great!!)
MD2M'D2 (in any direction)
M'UMU2M'UM (in any direction, useful if you can do an easy F/B setup move
that flips edges!!)

Edge orientations:
ERERERER'ERERERER' (in any direction)
(M'U)*4 (UL, UB, DF, and DB)
(M'U')*4 (UR, UB, DF, and DB)
(M'U)*4 (MU)*4
(MD')*4 (M'D')*4
R2 D' (R2M2) (M'U)*4 (R2M2) D R2
F D F D' (EF')*4 D F' D' F'
M' U M' U M' U2 M U M U M U2
(DwDRwR)*3 (octaflip)

Corner orientations:
R'DRFDF' Ux FD'F'R'D'R Ux'
(R'U2RUR'UR) U2 (L2U'F'BL2FB'U'L2)
(R'U2RUR'U'RUR'UR) (F2U'LR'F2RL'U'F2)
(LU2L'U'LU'L') (R'U2RUR'UR)
(F2 L F2 L') (U2 R U' R' F2 R' F2) (R U')
(F' D2 F R' U2 R) * 2

Basically you can do any two generator corner orientation (like RU2R'U'RU'R'
or RU2R2U'R2U'R2U2R), then check which edges are cycled, then undo the edge
cycle (see Edge permutations).
For the corner orientations there are many neat tricks in case the total
orientation of LL is not 0.

What could we add to this list?

One idea I got from blindfold solving to transfer to speedcubing is this:
suppose you could do the orientations (edges/corners) both in one step, and
the permutations (edges/corners) both in two steps. Then in 15 seconds
preinspection you could memorize the orientations. After that you do the
permutations. Total of 6 steps. That is better than the cross/F2L/OLL/PLL
system with 7 steps.
Another thing is this: without looking at the cross, just orient all edges.
This is much easier than for blindfold because you can do F to flip 4 edges.
I think the maximum depth for edge orientation is 7 moves. OK, now
preinspect the cube to solve the cross using moves in the group
(U,D,R,L,F2,B2). This would leave you a very easy F2L using only U, R and L
moves. And it would leave you a LL with oriented edges. Try this a few times
and then take an average not including the first step of orienting the
edges. Mine was better than my normal average.
Now if you could orient the edges very fast, and still be able to afterwards
solve the cross fluently, then you could maybe even improve your times.
This system can also be useful for one-handed cubing (many easy moves!!!)
and for beginners who have trouble with OLL or F2L (only 8 corners case for
OLL, no rotations or really hard cases for F2L).

Have fun,

Ron

Very interesting. As macky noted, you could go straight into ZBLL without ZBF2L.

 

[watermelon]

http://z12.invisionfree.com/rubiks/index.php?showtopic=506

That is a variation of what you just mentioned known as ZZ. Basically, you:

1) Orient edges
2) Solve DF/DB
3) Use Petrus-style block building to finish F2L
4) LL (3 options)
I) OLL + PLL
II) WV (Winter Variation = orient LL corners with last F2L pair) + PLL
III) COLL + Edge PLL

Personally, I think this system has the potential to be very fast. I've studied it a lot, so if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

 

[dChan]

Originally posted by watermelon@Apr 19 2007, 05:08 PM
http://z12.invisionfree.com/rubiks/index.php?showtopic=506

That is a variation of what you just mentioned known as ZZ. Basically, you:

1) Orient edges
2) Solve DF/DB
3) Use Petrus-style block building to finish F2L
4) LL (3 options)
I) OLL + PLL
II) WV (Winter Variation = orient LL corners with last F2L pair) + PLL
III) COLL + Edge PLL

Personally, I think this system has the potential to be very fast. I've studied it a lot, so if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Can this method be made where you orient ALL pieces and end up with an OLL skip during LL? Or would this be too cumbersome to do?

Btw, do you have any practice times with this method, you could show me?

 

[joey]

Originally posted by dChan+Apr 20 2007, 01:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dChan @ Apr 20 2007, 01:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-watermelon@Apr 19 2007, 05:08 PM
http://z12.invisionfree.com/rubiks/index.php?showtopic=506

That is a variation of what you just mentioned known as ZZ. Basically, you:

1) Orient edges
2) Solve DF/DB
3) Use Petrus-style block building to finish F2L
4) LL (3 options)
I) OLL + PLL
II) WV (Winter Variation = orient LL corners with last F2L pair) + PLL
III) COLL + Edge PLL

Personally, I think this system has the potential to be very fast. I've studied it a lot, so if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Can this method be made where you orient ALL pieces and end up with an OLL skip during LL? Or would this be too cumbersome to do?

Btw, do you have any practice times with this method, you could show me? [/b][/quote]
During the F2L you would mess up the orientations of corners probasbly.

 

[watermelon]

Btw, do you have any practice times with this method, you could show me?

My usual avg with this method is around 20-22 seconds.

 

[AvGalen]

Personally, I think this system has the potential to be very fast. I've studied it a lot.....

My usual avg with this method is around 20-22 seconds.

20-22 seconds doesn't sound "really fast". Fast? yes. Faster than me? Yes. But "Full Fridrich Fast"? No.

Do you also use other methods? And if so, what are your times on those?

I think this method has potential, but you have to be pretty good to use 15 seconds inpection to "see" step 1) Orient edges.

Could you provide us with an example scramble + solve?

 

[dChan]

Originally posted by AvGalen@Apr 20 2007, 03:21 AM

Personally, I think this system has the potential to be very fast. I've studied it a lot.....

My usual avg with this method is around 20-22 seconds.

20-22 seconds doesn't sound "really fast". Fast? yes. Faster than me? Yes. But "Full Fridrich Fast"? No.

Do you also use other methods? And if so, what are your times on those?

I think this method has potential, but you have to be pretty good to use 15 seconds inpection to "see" step 1) Orient edges.

Could you provide us with an example scramble + solve?

That would be great, a scramble and solve example!

AvGalen, these are just his practice times, I doubt he has pursued themethod fully leaving Fridrich behind. If he practice more I'm sure he would have faster times.

 

[watermelon]

You got it dChan. ZZ is not my main method. I have been practicing mainly Fridrich for the upcoming Rutgers Competition, but I might work on some other methods later. Just to let everyone know, I started to get those times with ZZ after about a week or less of practice.

@AvGalen
15 seconds is much more than enough to find and plan a solution to step 1. I probably lose the most time transitioning from step 1-2-3...

Also, isn't there an example solve in the link I gave you ?
If you want, however, I'd be happy to make a few more!

 

[dChan]

This is great, I'm definetly looking into this more. Is there a guide for this or no?

Examples:

Scramble:
D' U L B2 U' R L F2 B R' F' R2 L U2 R F' B2 U' B' L' D U2 L D' B

Orient edges and solve DF+DB: R B2 F' U F L' D' B' D y'
DR and BR slot: L' F2 R F2 R2
FR slot: L' U L' R U2 R'
DL and BL slot: U L U2 L U' L
FL slot: U L' U' L

>Scramble:
>D' U L B2 U' R L F2 B R' F' R2 L U2 R F' B2 U' B' L' D U2 L D' B
>
>Orient edges and solve DF+DB: R B2 F' U F L' D' B' D y'
>DR and BR slot: L' F2 R F2 R2
>FR slot: L' U L' R U2 R'
>DL and BL slot: U L U2 L U' L

To continue a normal ZZ solve:

FR slot and U edges: U L' U L U L' U L
U corners: U2 R2 B' R' U' R U R B R U R2 U2 R' U? R' (BH's LL list)

 

[AvGalen]

I will look into this method next week (after German Open) it looks promising!

 

[dChan]

I wish ZZ would make a guide for this or somebody else. I want to learn more about its possibilities.

 

[Johannes91]

Originally posted by dChan@Apr 23 2007, 05:41 PM
I wish ZZ would make a guide for this or somebody else.

You mean something like this?

 

[dChan]

Originally posted by Johannes91+Apr 23 2007, 09:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Johannes91 @ Apr 23 2007, 09:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-dChan@Apr 23 2007, 05:41 PM
I wish ZZ would make a guide for this or somebody else.

You mean something like this? [/b][/quote]
Its in polish though, I wish they had an english version.