[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

Discussion in 'Cubing Help & Questions' started by koreancuber, Apr 29, 2010.

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  1. CubingGenius

    CubingGenius Member

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    Jul 3, 2016
    For my EOline at the moment I'm only using one possible line for each EO. Is this a good idea? Line neutrality is a lot harder than EO neutrality and doesn't give as much back. EO inspection takes about 8 seconds at the moment whereas line inspection with neutrality takes about 30+ seconds.

    Maybe try to work out different ways of solving certain cases. I try to avoid bad cases by solving the case before in a way to avoid them. You may not find this useful though; it's probably a good idea to try it for a bit though.
     
  2. CubingGenius

    CubingGenius Member

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    What do you think the lowest possible move count is for F2L (EOline + ZZF2L) while having an easy to execute F2L? 30?
     
  3. CubingGenius

    CubingGenius Member

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    Jul 3, 2016
    Should I focus on improving lookahead until I can do it very well, then focus on efficiency?

    Trying to go for 40 QTM F2L at the moment while looking ahead. Good idea???
     
  4. genericcuber666

    genericcuber666 Member

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    Aug 5, 2016
    Use HTM, learn. Lookeahead first efficiency will follow
     
  5. Yes, but be sure that you aren't neglecting efficiency either.

    Only go for 40 QTM if you really can't stand double turns. I personally don't mind them, so I would go for <38 HTM F2L.
    I just did a few timed solves and focused on using lookahead. I re-constructed the solves F2L, and they came out a little under 40 HTM.
    I did a couple untimed solves and got like 35 HTM F2Ls.
     
    CubingGenius likes this.
  6. Mastermind2368

    Mastermind2368 Member

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    Dec 19, 2016
    Home
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  7. CubingGenius

    CubingGenius Member

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    Jul 3, 2016
    Why do you assume I don't know HTM???

    The second part is what I assumed; but thank you for confirming it. :)

    I can do about 32 HTM untimed. But when it's timed it becomes more like 36-37 HTM.

    The main reason I was thinking about QTM because of the amount of rotating the face you have to do. Although I do agree that U2 > 2 U's.

    So I'll just focus on HTM move count then. Thanks for the advice. :)
     
  8. I just switched to ZZ a week ago, and I am averaging around 20 seconds using ZZ. I was averaging 12 seconds using CFOP before I switched to ZZ, so I would say I have a good understanding of the cube. I am pretty decent on EO, but I need more help on blockbuilding. If anyone has any tips or knows any good videos, I would appreciate it very much, if you can share them with me.
     
  9. FJT97

    FJT97 Member

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    Apr 3, 2013
    WCA:
    2012THIE01
    Nice that you switched to zz! The zz community is growing :)

    Try to do lots of untimed solves. As you've been quite fast with cfop, you have cfopish block building in your fingers and it will be quite hard for you to develop efficient zzish block building. If you do zz speed solves now, you will tend to do eocrosses and cfopish block building. So do untimed solves and try to be efficient.
    a eoline needs 6.1 moves on average and never more than 8 moves. And a good efficient eoline+f2l should not be more than 35 moves on average.
    I would recommend that you to untimed solves till you are somewhere around 35 move count average.

    And probably the most important thing: don't do cfop solves anymore. never. If you do, you won't overcome your bad cfop habits.
     
    AlphaSheep likes this.
  10. Wristlor

    Wristlor Member

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    Dec 9, 2016
    Germany
    <iframe width="500" height="300" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KzxIstFt-9M?vq=hd720&amp;iv_load_policy=3&amp;rel=0&amp;showinfo=0&amp;theme=light&amp;color=white&amp;autohide=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Pretty good video.
    You don't have to watch the whole thing if you dont want to.
     
  11. AlphaSheep

    AlphaSheep Member

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    Gauteng, South Africa
    WCA:
    2014GRAY03
    Came here prepared to say pretty much this.

    CFOP trains you to go for the first thing you see. You're never going to improve your block building skills unless you break this habit. start looking for different ways to solve cases.

    With EOLine, aim for 9 moves or less at first and go back and look for a shorter solution if you don't manage to reach that. When you find you can get 9 moves every time, go for 8. When you can get 8 every time, try go for 7. You'll find EOLine is actually fairly simple with practice, and it shouldn't take too long to be able to get 7 moves on most scrambles.

    Block-building takes longer to get used to. You'll need to leave the timer alone for a couple of weeks because timing adds pressure, and pressure makes you revert to bad habits. Plan out efficient ways to build your blocks and trace the movements in your head before you actually start turning. You've probably heard of the exercise recommended for CFOP where you close your eyes while solving a pair? Do that, except with blocks. I find that not being able to see the pieces forces you to minimise wasted moves. The most important thing to remember is that anything goes - don't forget there are other block-building tricks like keyhole and similar which can save a few moves in many cases. Don't be afraid to use your imagination. Any weird tricks will become ingrained muscle memory with lots of practice, so it's important to get them right from the start.
     
  12. FJT97

    FJT97 Member

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    And its such a beautiful nose!
     
  13. JTcuber

    JTcuber Member

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    Aug 23, 2015
    WCA:
    2016TARN01
    Hey, does anyone know the possibility of doing WV and CP at the same time? I know the alg count would be about the same as ZZLL, but has anyone generated something like this?
     
  14. LexCubing

    LexCubing Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
    Any place where there's a holy grail of ZZ Walkthrough Solves lIke how CFOP and Rouz has a bunch on YT. I need pro walkthrough solves not some guy trying out the method or a guy taking shortcuts. I've been to the wiki and CRider's site. So if you have anymore resources for a ZZ solver or even for a ZZ-CT solver that would be great. Also if you guys have a FULL CPLS alg set(Any F2L case and solve CP) that would be nice too. I've also beeb to gyro's site so any more resources that would be great. I really need good walkthrough solves so please tell if there's some. On YT I've seen all of them since there's so few of it. Especially ZZF2L, solves on those would be great.
     
  15. AlphaSheep

    AlphaSheep Member

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    Nov 11, 2014
    Gauteng, South Africa
    WCA:
    2014GRAY03
    Even though you say you've seen all the YouTube videos, I think it's worth mentioning them here. There are literally only 3 that are worth watching:
    Simon Kalhofer
    Andy Huang
    Phil Yu

    The other good resource is the ZZ Example Solve Thread. There's a mix of good and bad solves there, but you can learn a few good tricks. Short EOLines are a good to learn from and look out for unusual F2Ls.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  16. FJT97

    FJT97 Member

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    sdsmint and colorfulpockets on youtube are quiet good. I will be making some OH walkthrough solves soon.

    edit:
    ninja'd
     
  17. LexCubing

    LexCubing Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
    I've watched Phil Yu, but the other 2 I haven't seen. I don't know why they didn't show up my YT search. Thanks this is why I ask here.

    Colorfulpocket doesn't too many solves but I'll check the other guy.


    Edit:
    I thought I've 2 new ZZ solves to watch but I have already watched them. :p See how few we ZZ solvers are.
     
  18. Mastermind2368

    Mastermind2368 Member

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    Shameless self promo!:

    I might start a doing 5 walkthroughs a week on my channel.
     
  19. LexCubing

    LexCubing Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
    Is ZZ-d solve left block while solving CP or is it solving the last F2L case while solving CP? If it is the forner where are the algs? I already know CPLS algs have not been generated yet or posted. (CPLS solves ANY F2L case while solving CP)
     
    • ZZ-d: Just before the completion of the left block, corners are permtued and 2GLL can be used to finish. Only a maximum of 2 additional moves are required to correctly solve CP. This process is called CPLS. However, the solver must determine the permutation of all the unsolved corners to execute this step; this is a slow process, which makes ZZ-d inappropriate for speed solving.
    The wiki is useful.
     

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