What is the minimum number of algorithms needed for 2 look last layer?

Discussion in 'Puzzle Theory' started by 10461394944000, May 12, 2014.

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  1. Lars Petrus

    Lars Petrus Member

    Mar 22, 2009
    Thanks! I added those.

    That set does miss one position: http://birdflu.lar5.com/?pos=Cd4a (Setup: B' U2 B U' F' U B' U' F2 U' B U F')

    Still, that easily beats my 14 alg set by adding any alg that covers that position. The fact that I didn't have 10 of those 12 in the system shows the deficiencies in my small set search. I've mostly focused on finding fast sets, not small, and it shows.

    How did you find this one?
  2. TDM

    TDM Super Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 7, 2013
    Oxfordshire, UK
    Wow. What I love about these are they're all nice cases. Most are standard COLLs/easy ZBLLs.
    It's unusual how only J93 and J417 affect EO though. Do you know which cases they help solve?

    I made a table with speed-optimal algs, though I doubt many people will be able to use it for speedsolving.
  3. Lars Petrus

    Lars Petrus Member

    Mar 22, 2009
    If I remove J93/J417, only http://birdflu.lar5.com/?pos=Fo4A becomes unsolved, so that's why it's there. Kinda silly to have EO flipping algs in an EO set, but that's what dumb software will do.

    When I made the "tiny" sets, only <= 10 moves algs were combinable, so that's why all the algs are short :)

    If you want to "upload"/play around with that 14 alg set, I'll add the missing algs.
  4. xyzzy

    xyzzy Member

    Dec 24, 2015
    I wrote a script a while back to calculate the coverage of any set and ran it for a few hours (it was really slow) on random sets of 6 cases. Strange that it missed one case though; maybe there's a bug in my code, or maybe I copied the results wrongly back when I ran it. I do have two other 6-alg sets that cover all but one case.

    Edit: Oh, actually the code was correct, but I looked up the wrong case in Birdflu. Replacing Ff4h / K1880 with Fl4F / K701 fixed it—full coverage with 12 algs!
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  5. Niko Lopez

    Niko Lopez Member

    Jun 15, 2017
    So I'm thinking (I'm probably wrong) that if you want to be able to do 2LLL every time using the minimum amount of algs, you will have to learn winters variation (I don't know if that counts as a LL alg but for now I'm not counting it) then you will have to learn 3 olls and 21 plls so a total of 24 algs, if you count winters variation, then it would be a lot higher, in this case you would want to learn how to do intuitive edge control (which is no Algs or if you wanted to learn the alg version you can learn VHS) then learn the 7 cross oll cases and the 21 pll cases which comes out to 28.
  6. Cale S

    Cale S Member

    Jan 18, 2014
    Iowa, USA
    This question is about full LL, so you can't influence it with WV
  7. Lucy Griffiths

    Lucy Griffiths Member

    Jun 6, 2017
    I think to understand the math here - I think we should understand the basics, called Fundamental counting principle. Once you get that, you can look at it as a path counting problem.
  8. Abram Lookadoo

    Abram Lookadoo Member

    Jun 12, 2017
    i have found a way to solve this using 45 algorithms

    preform M2 S2
    look 1: use adf and auf then orient all the corners and edges (31 algs)
    look 2: use adf and auf then permutate all the corners and edges (14 algs) then auf all the side permutation with the centers, and adf all the corners permutation with the E side pieces
    preform M2 S2

    for 3 look, i found a way that uses 22 algorithms

    preform M2 S2
    look 1: use auf and adf then solve edge orientation and corner permutation (11 algs)
    look 2: use auf then solve corner orientation (7 algs)
    look 3: use adf then solve edge permutation (4 algs) then adf the bottom corners to match the E edges, and auf the top edges to match the centers
    preform M2 S2

    this is effective enough to turn 1 look into 1289 algorithms
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  9. xyzzy

    xyzzy Member

    Dec 24, 2015
    Very interesting ideas (using setup moves so you can reduce by both AUF and ADF is pretty cool), but (i) use the edit button instead of multiple posts and (ii) don't post the same thing in multiple threads.

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