The FMC thread

Discussion in 'General Speedcubing Discussion' started by blah, Jul 12, 2009.

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  1. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    Congartulations Tim, Guus, Tomoaki and Agnar!

    Tim - NAR
    Guus - Dutch nationals winner
    Tomoaki and Agnar for both finding the same 20 HTM solution to fmc.mustcube.net 376

    Edit: fmc.mustcube.net 376

    Scramble: D R' L F' B2 L2 B D' U B2 L F' D R2 F D2 B U' R2 L' F R D2 B F2 U' L2 B' U L
    Solution Tomoaki and Agnar: D B' U F' L B2 D' R2 U' L' D2 L U D L' D L D' L' R' 20 HTM (6 move cancel insertion)

    This is only 2 moves above optimal (CE: L' U2 R U' L2 U L' D2 U' R' F' U' B D F' R2 F2 R' (18f*) )

    And another thing;

    How difficult would it be to create a piece of software that could check skeletons for all possible insertions?
    I think this could generate some very interesting data.
    - average cancellations for the best insertions
    - for 5 cycles: is it needed to check all insertions for the resulting possibilities of "insertion into the insertion"
    - inserting cycles vs inserting a pure corner twist
    - just checking some existing solves to see if you missed anything- get better at comms this way
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2011
  2. guusrs

    guusrs Member

    670
    0
    Aug 4, 2007
    Netherlands
    WCA:
    1982RAZO01
    Woww, exciting weekend!
    Congratz Tim for that NAR and splendid double corner insertion
    Congratz Tomoaki & Agnar for that 20 move solve. Really smart solve. I feel ashamed with my 28 move solve. I did only spend 30 minutes on it this time

    Hello Agnar, who are you? Where are you from?

    I enjoyed dutch nationals yesterday. A really hard FMC scramble:

    B D2 B R U F L U' B L' B U2 R2 D' R2 D B2 R2 L2 D' B2

    I will post my 31 move solution later this week.

    Gus
     
  3. TMOY

    TMOY Member

    1,802
    0
    Jun 29, 2008
    WCA:
    2008COUR01
    LolFMC at Magic Open this weekend. I won with 32, second best got 45 :p

    Scramble: U' R2 D2 U' L2 R2 B2 D' L2 F U2 L' B2 D R D' B U2 R' F

    After about half an hour I found this, which solves the cube up to a 3-cycle of edges:

    y D2 Lw' D Lw' y L2 Uw2 L2 Uw' Lw2 Uw' z' y D' L' E2 L y' U' L E' L' U2 F2 U D (24 HTM)

    So I tried to find a good insertion for that 3-cycle, and couldn't find better than inserting it in the middle of the 5th move, replacing the L2 with:

    L U' M U2 M' U' L (9 HTM)

    which gives a total of 24 + 9 - 1 = 32 HTM. Any ideas of a better insertion ?
     
  4. irontwig

    irontwig Member

    1,754
    9
    Apr 6, 2009
    Sweden
    WCA:
    2010JERN01
    YouTube:
    jernqvist
    My lucky-ish 29 move solution:

    R B' D2 B' U2 L D2 R D' R F2 R D' R2 D R B' D B2 D' F' D B' D' F R D R F (29)

    R B' D2 B' U2 L [2x2x2+2 pairs]
    D2 R D' R F2 [Pseudo 2x2x3+2 pairs]
    R D' R2 D R B' D B.D' R D R F [Leaving three corners (That was easy!)]

    Insert at dot: B D' F' D B' D' F D (Three moves cancel)
     
  5. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    Hi François, congratulations on your win!
    I would love to go through your solution but all the rotations, double layer turns and slice moves freak me out.
    I think I’ll go through it tonight; first thing will be rewriting your solution so I can walk through it without having to worry about the orientation of the cube
    Edit: I give up, I keep screwing up notation in trying to rewrite

    For additional cycles for edge insertions you may want to check out these edge cycles originally posted by Guus

    U2 L2 F L2 U2 R2 B R2
    B' R B' M B' R' B' M'
    B' R B' M2 B' R' B M2
    B2 R B2 M B2 R' B2 M'
    B2 R B2 M2 B2 R' B2 M'

    And Bruce’s remark from further down the thread:
    M U2 M' U2 translated into face turns is:
    L' R B2 L R' U2 But this can be replaced by any of these other 3 algs:
    R B2 L R' U2 L'
    L' B2 L R' U2 R
    B2 L R' U2 L' R

    However I would not be surprised if you know all of these (and some more) ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2011
  6. kinch2002

    kinch2002 Premium Member

    2,503
    4
    Dec 22, 2008
    Guildford! UK!
    WCA:
    2009SHEP01
    YouTube:
    kinch2002
    Congrats Tim! 4 corner insertions ftw. In response to what Brest said, I think fmc is only event that exactly the same whether I'm in comp or at home. Imo a couple of events are easier in comp and obviously most are harder but fmc stays the same
     
  7. Sebastien

    Sebastien Premium Member

    796
    0
    Apr 22, 2008
    WCA:
    2008AURO01
    Very nice insertion Tim and congratz on your NAR! :)
     
  8. guusrs

    guusrs Member

    670
    0
    Aug 4, 2007
    Netherlands
    WCA:
    1982RAZO01
    Very well done!
     
  9. 2nd non-linear FMC

    (premove L') B R2 F' L2 F2 U2 B D2 F2 U2 L2 D' U2 B R F U F R2 F D2

    D U L' R2 B // 2x2x2
    L F' L2 // 2x2x3
    U F' U' F' L' . U' L2 R' F2 L' // finish F2L
    R2 U R' B' R B U' B' R' B U2 // leave 3 corners

    F' D F U2 F' D' F U2 insert at . cancelling 1 move

    Final solution:
    D U L' R2 B L F' L2 U F' U' F' L' F' D F U2 F' D' F U L2 R' F2 L' R2 U R' B' R B U' B' R' B U2 L'
    37 moves in 37 minutes :)
     
  10. kinch2002

    kinch2002 Premium Member

    2,503
    4
    Dec 22, 2008
    Guildford! UK!
    WCA:
    2009SHEP01
    YouTube:
    kinch2002
    R2 F2 L R2 F2 L2 D L' B2 U' B' R2 U2 B2 F L2 F L' D2 F D2 B' D2 B2 D'

    Premoves: F B2
    F2L: F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U F
    Essentially a 13 move F2L. Can't find a good finish (only tried for about 5 minutes though). Anyone?
     
  11. Brest

    Brest Super Reconstructor Staff Member

    2,182
    189
    Sep 30, 2010
    WCA:
    2011STUA01
    YouTube:
    BrestCubing
    F' L' U L F R (U' R' R U2) R' U' R U' R'
    I thought I was onto something but 2twist )=
    Removing cancellations:
    F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U L' U L F R U R' U' R U' R' F B2 (23)
    I'm sure there is something better.
     
  12. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    Another 2 twist:
    Change finish of F2L:
    F' D' R2 L' U L F U F2 U' F' U2 F
    R' F' U' F (U R
    R' U' ) R U' R' U2 R U2

    Done in alg garron as I do not have a cube at hand
    I think your best bet is in tinkering with the final F2L slot and check the alternative endings
     
  13. Attila

    Attila Member

    276
    27
    Nov 7, 2010
    Halásztelek, Hungary
    WCA:
    2012HORV01
    I like your scrambles :)
    I found a hybrid solution, i used your premoves and the first two moves:
    F’D’
    continuation with Guimond corners first method:
    B’R’B
    R2LFRL’U’FRL’U’ more 4 edges, oriented M slice,
    B2L’B2R’L2U2 corners completion.
     
  14. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    Nice comeback!
    Looking forward to seeing you again in the weekly comp!
     
  15. irontwig

    irontwig Member

    1,754
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    Apr 6, 2009
    Sweden
    WCA:
    2010JERN01
    YouTube:
    jernqvist
    Common OLL (I think) leaves three edges in 22: U2 F U F' U F U' R U' R' B2
     
  16. okayama

    okayama Member

    519
    8
    May 9, 2010
    Hiroshima, Japan
    WCA:
    2009OKAY01
    YouTube:
    okayamat
    Quick skeleton:

    Pre-scramble: F' B2

    2x2x3 block: F' D' R2 (your start)
    c/e pair: U2
    c/e pair: F
    Finish F2L: U' F R' F2 R
    All but 3 corners: U' L F' L' F U F U' F'
    Correction: F' B2

    12 moves F2L (including premoves) + standard OLL.
     
  17. kinch2002

    kinch2002 Premium Member

    2,503
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    Dec 22, 2008
    Guildford! UK!
    WCA:
    2009SHEP01
    YouTube:
    kinch2002
    Thanks for all the response. Just to let you know, I don't always get crazy nice scrambles. This was just posted on #Rubik by Yttrium so I thought I'd try it. That 20 mover I got a while back was also posted on #Rubik (by Kirjava iirc).
     
  18. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    I would like to dedicate this 26 mover to Irontwig who once posted the corner flip T-perm:
    (R2 [R F R', u2]) F'

    I used it to solve 2E3C incl a twisted corner in just 14 moves :)

    Spoiler alert: This is Holiday comp FMC scramble 1
    scramble L B U2 R' F2 U F' U' F' L R F L' D' U L B' F' L2 F' L' U' B2 L2 R2

    premove B2
    U' B2 U2 - square
    B'. L'- 2x2x3
    at . insert F for better continuation
    U2 F' U F U' - leaves edge swap and 3 corners of which one is twisted*
    U' - set up move (cancels)
    D' L D' B2 U R' U' B2 D2 L' - corner twist T-perm
    U - undo set up leaves 3 corners
    U' L D L' U L D' L'- 3-cycle cancels 5 moves D2 L' U U' L D = D'
    B2 - undo premove

    final solution: U' B2 U2 B' F L' U2 F' U F U2 D' L D' B2 U R' U' B2 D' L' U L D' L'B2 = 26 HTM

    * in this position the corner twist T-perm will leave 2 twisted corners

    I like to dedicate this 26 mover to Sune:

    Spoiler alert: This is Holiday comp FMC scramble 2
    scramble R2 F2 L R2 F2 L2 D L' B2 U' B' R2 U2 B2 F L2 F L' D2 F D2 B' D2 B2 D'

    Premoves F’ B2
    F’ D’ R2
    U2 F U2 F2 U F – F2L-1
    L’ U2 L of U L’ U L – F2L

    Premoves F B2
    F’ D’ R2
    L’ U L F U F U F – F2L
    Switch to inverse with premoves F’ U’ F’ U’ F’ L’ U’ L
    F’ B2 – F2L
    B’ U’ R’ U R B – good ole f sexy move f’
    F’ U2 F U F’ U F U2 – good ole Sune

    Final sol
    F' D' R2 L' U L F U F U F - U2 F' U' F U' F' U2 F B' R' U' R U B' F

    I had never expected that a scramble switch at F2L stage could be this usefull :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2012
  19. CuberMan

    CuberMan Member

    242
    0
    Apr 2, 2010
    Indonesia
    WCA:
    2010ADHI01
    YouTube:
    TheStephen506
    I found a 34 moves solution, but I think many people can get better than me
    scramble: L B U2 R' F2 U F' U' F' L R F L' D' U L B' F' L2 F' L' U' B2 L2 R2
    Spoiler alert: This is Holiday comp FMC scramble 1
    solution: U’ F2 D2 B’ F R’ F D’ R2 z2 U’ F’ U F y R’ U’ R2 U R’ U R U2 R’ F2 L D2 F’ U F D2 F’ U’ F L’ F2 (34)
    explanation:
    2x2x2 block: U’ F2 D2 B’ (4)
    Cross + 2 pair F2L: F R’ F D’ R2 (5)
    F2L #3: z2 U’ F’ U F (4)
    F2L #4: y R’ U’ R (3)
    Leave 3 corners: R U R’ U R U2 R’ (6)
    Last 3 corners: F2 L D2 F’ U F D2 F’ U’ F L’ F2 (12)
    cancel 1 move

    I found 9 moves 2x2x3 block, anyone can continue it?
    scramble: L' R B' R B F2 D' B' F2 L U' R2 D B F D2 L R2 D' R2 F' D' U' L F2
    Spoiler alert: This is Holiday comp FMC scramble 3
    2x2x2 block: U R F’ U D2 L2 (6)
    2x2x3 block: R F R2 (3)
    p.s: I'm still new to FMC, still using normal CFOP but I know blockbuilding and turbo algorithms (BLD corner method).
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011
  20. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    Good work for a newbie :)
    An FMC solve can (almost) always be improved, for scramble 1 and 2 check out both my 26 HTM solutions in the previous page :)
    Scramble 3 was my typical DNF...

    In you 1st solution there are two ways to improve your result without making large changes to your solution:
    1: you can save two moves in solving the last three corners: R B2 D' L' D R2 D' L D R2 B2 R' - always look for a set up move that cancels
    EDIT: forgot about your cube rotations, your last move is actually B'
    you can cancel one move with B' U L' F' L B2 L' F L B2 U' B

    2: if you have time left you should insert the corner cycle into an earlier part of your solution.
    Exept for some very rare cases you will always find some std 8 move cycles and you can expect to cancel about 2 additional moves.
    You had 3 corners left after 22 moves so with an insertion these corners you may get to 28 HTM.

    EDIT: your solution without cube rotations:
    2x2x2 block: U’ F2 D2 B’ (4)
    Cross + 2 pair F2L: F R’ F D’ R2 (5)
    F2L #3: D' F' D F + (4)
    F2L #4: B' D' B (3)
    Leave 3 corners: B D B’ D B D2 B’ (6)

    at + insert F U2 F' D' F U2 F' D to cancel 1 move for a total of 29 HTM
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011

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