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Interest in a BH method website?

Would you be interested in a website about the BH (Beyer-Hardwick) blindfold method?

  • Yes, I am interested in a website

    Votes: 152 88.9%
  • No, I am not interested in the BH method

    Votes: 6 3.5%
  • Other / Indifferent

    Votes: 13 7.6%

  • Total voters
    171

dbeyer

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Arnaud: For Edges, we use 3 move insertions and setup moves. We find cancellations if there are any.

You are looking at 8-10 moves to purely cycle 3 cubies with commutators.
All of the commutators cycling 3 edges use slice moves in the insertion or interchanging.

So ... using an actual commutator for cycling 3 edges is a bad idea, since slice turns count as two moves, etc etc.
 

cmhardw

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Today's Quiz:

I won't restrict anything here. Any commutator is fair game now.

(URB DBR RFD)
(URB FLD DRF)
(URB DBR FUL)

First can you solve each case BLD at all? Second, can you solve them optimally? Use the algs page to lookup each case to find the optimal length after you've tried it.

Chris
 

byu

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First competitor!

1. Solved - Optimal - 16 seconds
2. Solved - Non optimal - 20 seconds
3. Solved - Optimal - 18 seconds

I like these quizzes. Chris, can I post the quizzes with 10 cases each? 3 just isn't enough.
 

cmhardw

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First competitor!

1. Solved - Optimal - 16 seconds
2. Solved - Non optimal - 20 seconds
3. Solved - Optimal - 18 seconds

I like these quizzes. Chris, can I post the quizzes with 10 cases each? 3 just isn't enough.

Nice! Try to learn the cases like the second one. Those are some of my favorites actually. You can viewpoint shift if it helps, but I've learned to see them with the stickers exactly as they are in the cycle.

And yeah, Brian feel free to post the quizzes. I might occasionally pipe in with some of my favorite cases, but feel free to take over at this point.

Chris
 

AvGalen

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Arnaud: For Edges, we use 3 move insertions and setup moves. We find cancellations if there are any.

You are looking at 8-10 moves to purely cycle 3 cubies with commutators.
All of the commutators cycling 3 edges use slice moves in the insertion or interchanging.

So ... using an actual commutator for cycling 3 edges is a bad idea, since slice turns count as two moves, etc etc.
Oh, so you would only use commutator cycles and not use edge-3-cycles like (U2 B2 D2) R' (B2 U2 F2) L'? Cycles like this can be shifted to (B2 D2) R' (B2 U2 F2) L' (U2) and to (D2) R' (B2 U2 F2) L' (U2 B2) giving lots of chances for cancellations

For the 3 insertions I did use slice based commutators, but because of the way I wrote it down (FMC-style) you might not have noticed.
Insert 3 edges at *: (R L') D' F2 ** D (R' L) B' D2 B
Insert 3 edges at **: (F' B) R U' R' *** (F B') D R D'
Insert 3 edges at ***: (R' L) U' B' U (R L') B' D B
The A and A' parts are slice moves and the B and B' parts (slightly hidden in this notation style) are then obvious
 

cmhardw

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Oh, so you would only use commutator cycles and not use edge-3-cycles like (U2 B2 D2) R' (B2 U2 F2) L'? Cycles like this can be shifted to (B2 D2) R' (B2 U2 F2) L' (U2) and to (D2) R' (B2 U2 F2) L' (U2 B2) giving lots of chances for cancellations

Hi Arnaud,

That's correct that we would not use those types of cycles for edges. The reason is that we can't use such a cycle on 5x5x5 blindfold, which our method is optimized for, and thus also optimized for 7x7x7, 9x9x9, etc..

Personally, learning how to see those types of 3x3x3 cycles is at the top of my to do list, since they appear to be very powerful for fewest moves. I have to be honest that I don't yet understand how they work, but learning to see them is something I have on my to-do list, probably after we finish the BH method website, or hopefully sooner.

Since we can't use that cycle on a big cube and only affect the central most edges, then we wouldn't use that alg for BH. Let me comment again that no effort has been put into optimizing BH for 3x3x3, only for 5x5x5 ;-)

Chris
 

byu

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BH QUIZ: May 18, 2009

OK, so I'm going to post 10 cycles of corners, and the goal is to do the following things.

1. Perform them
2. Perform them optimally
3. Perform them in a minimum amount of time

If you can only do 8-movers, highlight below.
2, 4, 7

Here are the 10

1. (URB FRU DBR)
2. (URB RDB FLD)
3. (URB BDL DBR)
4. (URB FUL BDL)
5. (URB FUL LBD)
6. (URB DBR DLB)
7. (URB DRF LFU)
8. (URB BLU FUL)
9. (URB FUL RUF)
10. (URB UBL UFR)

HINTS
Highlight below to see.


1. What move makes UBR and DBR interchangeable?
2. Which two pieces are interchangeable? This case is pure.
3. None of the pieces are interchangeable, they are all on the same face, what case does this have to be?
4. Which pieces are interchangeable? This case is pure.
5. All of the pieces are opposites, none are interchangeable, and they are all twisted differently. This must be a _______.
6. The setup move should not disturb the interchangeable pieces.
7. In three moves, how can you get LFU to URB without disturbing the rest of the R-Slice? This case is pure.
8. Since these are all on the same face, and nothing is interchangeable, what case is this?
9. What move will make URB and FUL interchangeable?
10. What commonly used PLL is this?


SOLUTIONS
NOTE: For some cases, there will be more than one optimal solution (for example, case number 5). The solutions shown below are simply the ones that are on the BH website.

Highlight below to see.


1. U R2 U L U' R2 U L' U2 (A9)
2. R' F2 R B R' F2 R B' (Pure)
3. L U' B2 U L' U' L B2 L' U (Cyclic Shift)
4. F R' F' L2 F R F' L2 (Pure)
5. U L' B R2 B' L B R2 B' U' (Orthogonal)
6. U2 L2 U' R2 U L2 U' R2 U' (A9)
7. B L' B' R2 B L B' R2 (Pure)
8. R' F U2 F' R F R' U2 R F' (Cyclic Shift)
9. F2 D' F U2 F' D F U2 F (A9)
10. R2 B2 R F R' B2 R F' R (A9)
 

Mike Hughey

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It's hard for me, because I use UBL as my buffer, and I'm totally not used to this kind of notation. So what I did was, I would set the cube at a 90 degree angle, start the timer, put my fingers on the three stickers, and then rotate the cube back to my normal orientation and see what the case was. Then execute. I think the whole translation bit was the majority of my time, in most cases.

12.28, 11.58, 19.88, 13.83, 15.17, 17.08, 15.58, 24.41, 13.19, 11.73

I need to work more on the cyclic shifts; I get confused which way to cycle the pieces and it slows me down.
 

byu

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Here I go with the cycles for today:

My procedure went like this:
1. Look at the number
2. Start timer
3. Place fingers on stickers
4. Determine cycle
5. Execute cycle

N refers to Non-Optimal

15.21, 6.31, DNF, 8.00, 13.27, 24.15, 6.43, 38.94, 16.26 (N), 5.78 = 17.32

The average is an 8/10.

Oh, and Mike, tomorrow I'll post the same cycles with both UBR and UBL buffers.
 

cmhardw

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1. Perform them
2. Perform them optimally
3. Perform them in a minimum amount of time

Here are the 10

1. (URB FRU DBR)
2. (URB RDB FLD)
3. (URB BDL DBR)
4. (URB FUL BDL)
5. (URB FUL LBD)
6. (URB DBR DLB)
7. (URB DRF LFU)
8. (URB BLU FUL)
9. (URB FUL RUF)
10. (URB UBL UFR)

I figured I should probably give this a try to see how it goes. Here were my times. All cycles were performed in the optimal number of moves.

1) 11.78
2) 7.75
3) 3.31
4) 3.08
5) 6.50
6) 3.81
7) 9.22
8) 5.33
9) 6.09
10) 2.64

--edit--
Averaging all times comes out to: 5.95 seconds
 
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dbeyer

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(3.08), 4.11, (10.14), 3.08, 3.20, 4.18, 3.82, 6.78, 5.42, 3.42 => 04.72
I found myself looking at the number, and I guess determining the cycle then letting go of the timer.

I think a more practical application:
Take an average of 12, using random cube scrambles, and completely solve the cube with BH methods.
 

dbeyer

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1. R2 U2 D F2 B2 D B' R2 B D B L2 B F' U F' R L U F' L' F2 D U2 R'
2. B2 D2 L' B' L' R2 B2 D2 F B U D2 B2 U R2 F R F D' U R B U2 B' F'
3. B2 L' D2 R' L' U' B2 F R' B2 R' L' D' B' R2 B D2 B2 R2 U2 B' F D2 U2 B
4. U D2 R2 U F L2 R' F R2 F2 U' F' R2 B2 L D R2 D2 R F L' R2 B' U2 F
5. R2 D2 F2 D' R D2 B D2 R2 L' D' B2 R D' L F2 R' L' D' R2 L2 B2 R B2 R2

(108.21), 77.24, 106.22, 95.01, (56.11) => 88.56 average complete solves
I treated it like a speedsolve, commutators only, but I maybe took a glance before making making any turns.
 

byu

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BH QUIZ - May 19, 2009

Part 1
In Part 1, you will be given 10 cycles (with a choice of URB or UBL for buffer) and you are to attempt the following three things.

1. Perform them
2. Perform them optimally
3. Perform them in a minimum amount of time

If you can only do 8-movers, highlight below.
3, 4, 9

Here are the 10. Note that I provide two cycles for each one, if you use URB buffer, use the FIRST cycle, if you use UBL buffer, use the SECOND cycle. They are the same thing, just the UBL one is rotated 90 degrees counterclockwise.

1. (URB FRU DBR) (UBL RBU DLB)
2. (URB FDR LBD) (UBL RDB FDL)
3. (URB FDR FLD) (UBL RDB RFD)
4. (URB FUL LUB) (UBL RUF FUL)
5. (URB FUL LBD) (URB RUF FLD)
6. (URB RUF BLU) (UBL BUR LFU)
7. (URB FDR LFU) (UBL RDB FRU)
8. (URB ULF DRF) (UBL UFR DBR)
9. (URB FUL FLD) (UBL RFU RDF)
10. (URB UBL DLB) (UBL ULF DFL)

SOLUTIONS
NOTE: For some cases, there will be more than one optimal solution (for example, case number 2). The solutions shown below are simply the ones that are on the BH website. They are the cycle solutions from the URB buffer.

Highlight below to see.


1. U R2 U L U' R2 U L' U2 (A9)
2. U F' L2 F R F' L2 F R' U' (Orthogonal)
3. F L B2 L' F' L B2 L' (Pure)
4. L F L' B L F' L' B (Pure)
5. U L' B R2 B' L B R2 B' U' (Orthogonal)
6. L F' U2 F L' F' L U2 L' F (Cyclic Shift)
7. U R' F L2 F' R F L2 F' U' (Orthogonal)
8. U F2 U' F2 U' R2 U F2 U F2 U' R2 (Per Special)
9. F' L B2 L' F L B2 L' (Pure)
10. D L2 D R2 D' L2 D R2 D2 (A9)


Part 2
For those of you who also know 3x3 edges BLD, I will give three scrambles, and you will time yourself on solving it with only BH commutators, but sighted (15 second inspection allowed, all other speedcubing rules apply)

1. L2 D U L D' U2 F L2 B' F' L B2 F' L2 B2 F' L2 U2 B2 U'
2. F R' B2 U2 L2 B F U L R' U R' U R2 U' B' D2 F U2 F
3. L' U L D' L' U L2 U' B2 F U' L R F U F R U' B' D'
 
Last edited:

cmhardw

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BH QUIZ - May 19, 2009

First ten average: 4.26
6.97, 4.22, 2.47, 2.31, 2.66, 6.75, 6.91, 3.88, 2.72, 3.70

Full solves average (sighted): 1:01.83
1:23.02
49.36
53.11

I spent inspection looking for permuted but disoriented pieces. I orient them first, before cycling. Then I cycle until parity. Lastly I set up parity pieces into a PLL.

Chris
 

byu

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BH Quiz - May 20, 2009

Trying out a new format. Ten cycles, highlight next to it to see solution.

For only pure commutators test, use the following cases (highlight below to see)
2, 3

Today's Specialty (Most Commonly Occurring Commutator Type): Cyclic Shift

1. (URB FUL LBD) U L' B R2 B' L B R2 B' U' (Orthogonal)
2. (URB FRU UBL) R' F' L F R F' L' F (Pure)
3. (URB FRU LFU) R' F' L' F R F' L F (Pure)
4. (URB RUF LFU) B L' U2 L B' L' B U2 B' L (Cyclic Shift)
5. (URB RUF FLD) B2 L B R2 B' L' B R2 B (A9)
6. (URB BLU FUL) R' F U2 F' R F R' U2 R F' (Cyclic Shift)
7. (URB BLU DBR) D L' B2 L D' L' D B2 D' L (Cyclic Shift)
8. (URB LUB ULF) F' L2 F' R2 F L2 F' R2 F2 (A9)
9. (URB LBD FDR) U R F' L2 F R' F' L2 F U' (Orthogonal)
10. (URB DLB ULF) U B2 U' B2 U' L2 U B2 U B2 U' L2 (Per Special)
 
Last edited:

dbeyer

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Blah: There are 24 buffers you can choose from. The reason that we are listing the URB and UBL as the buffers is because this is an advanced method. Since it's advanced, that means that other experience must have been gained to be able to approach this method. As such, they have created old habits that die hard. A sticker on the U layer is chosen as the buffer for numerous reasons. Orient First Users, well they Orient to the U layer, and why would you change your buffer now? Other methods, such as Pochmann's 2-cycle method use U layer buffers. You are able to see the U layer very easily.

With this method, the buffer is relatively objective, but up until this point you were bound to a standardization of methodology, because of the narrow mindedness of a few algorithms with many setups.

Parity Fixes are best don't with PLLs which again are done on the U layer.

Changing your buffer now, when all these reasons had limited you to a few choices in the past, would be foolish. There is no greater buffer relative to the solving methods. Parity fixes, perhaps are different and better with U layer PLLs, but that's neither here nor there.

The move count and case count is still the same. For all my good algorithms, we found that Chris would have a bad algorithm.
For all my bad algorithms, we found that Chris would have a good algorithm.

We found that a case for me that is good as an AB pure commutator (that is Insert, Interchange, Insert', Interchange': ABA'B'). It could be bad for him.
However, he would have an opportunity for a good BA pure commutator.

Orthogonal Cases and Columns have a lot of freedom to optimize the setups to give you that personal favorite. If you pick a bad setup move that gives you a bad commutator that's your fault.

Since all 24 buffers are arbitrarily equal, it would seem foolish to change your muscle memory, and would hinder your learning process, because the application to blindfolded cubing would be awkward, as you would want to sometimes memorize from your old buffer.
Later,
DB
 

byu

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BH Quiz - May 20, 2009

Ten cycles, highlight next to it to see solution.

For only pure commutators test, use the following cases (highlight below to see)
4, 5, 7

Today's Specialty (Most Commonly Occurring Commutator Type): A9

1. (URB UBL RUF) B U2 B D B' U2 B D' B2 (A9)
2. (URB FUL UFR) R U2 R D R' U2 R D' R2 (A9)
3. (URB FUL LBD) U L' B R2 B' L B R2 B' U' (Orthogonal)
4. (URB FDR RDB) R F R' B' R F' R' B (Pure)
5. (URB RFD LUB) L F2 L' B L F2 L' B' (Pure)
6. (URB RFD RUF) F2 L F' R2 F L' F' R2 F' (A9)
7. (URB FRU DLB) L' F2 L B2 L' F2 L B2 (Pure)
8. (URB RUF LFU) B L' U2 L B' L' B U2 B' L (Cyclic Shift)
9. (URB BLU FRU) L' B2 L' F2 L B2 L' F2 L2 (A9)
10. (URB FLD BLU) U B2 D' B' U2 B D B' U2 B' U' (Column)

---------------

Chris, I'm having some difficulties with Per Specials? Can you try to explain them a little simpler to me? I've got all other corner cases but these.
 
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