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Human Thistlethwaite Help/Discussion

Discussion in 'Cubing Help & Questions' started by pistelli, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. Kirjava

    Kirjava Colourful

    6,122
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    Mar 26, 2006
    WCA:
    2006BARL01
    YouTube:
    snkenjoi
    yeah, the ending is my fastest part, human kociemba helps too

    I think my biggest problem is with EO efficiency and corners in general

    you'll see why I'm going for speed soon enough :)
     
  2. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    Ooohhh....
    Mr. Barlow's secret method going to make its debut at the UK open :)

    Good luck!
     
  3. Kirjava

    Kirjava Colourful

    6,122
    29
    Mar 26, 2006
    WCA:
    2006BARL01
    YouTube:
    snkenjoi
  4. StachuK1992

    StachuK1992 statue

    3,809
    28
    Jul 24, 2008
    West Chester, PA
    WCA:
    2008KORI02
    YouTube:
    StachuK1992
    Do you guys have algs for this yet? :s
     
  5. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    Page 4?
    And some more edge movers in my HTA FMC lolthread
     
  6. miotatsu

    miotatsu Member

    27
    0
    Oct 21, 2010
    Minnesota
    YouTube:
    miotatsu
    update on my progress with AHTA:
    So I have been busy learning the corner cases and have decided to learn only a subset of them. normally using the parity+EPOCBL system there would be 63 (49 EPOCBL, 7 normal OCLL, same 7 but on D) cases after parity. I figure a cube rotation wouldn't hurt since it drops the alg count to 35. Counting mirrors as the same case drops the count down to 28. also if we sacrifice a couple moves the cases u/u, t/u, and t/t can all be set up as H and Pi cases which brings the count down to 25. other cases could potentially reduce to a single case as well but they aren't worth it imo because of extra moves and harder recognition.
    subtracting the 6 ocll cases (antisune counted as mirror) that most cubers already know this results in 19 unique cases that need to be learned and this system still provides very nice CO for speed. I will list the algs I am going to personally use below.

    (top/bottom):(alg) (mirror?) (if I have learned this case yet or not)

    sune/sune: R' U' R' U R U2 D R' D' R (yes) (yes)
    anti/sune: R' U' R U2 R (U' D) R2 U R' (yes) (yes)
    H/sune: U' R (U' D) M2 U' r2 U R' (yes) (yes)
    U/sune: R' U2 R' U D R2 U2 R' U' R (yes) (yes)
    T/sune: L D' L' U' r2 U2 L' U' L' (yes) (yes)
    L/sune: R D r2 R' U R U2 r2 R' (yes) (yes)
    Pi/sune: L U D L' U D2 L' U2 D L' (yes) (yes)

    H/H: R2 (U' D) L (U D') M2 (U D') L (no) (yes)
    U/H: R D R' U D2 l2 U2 R' U' R' (no) (yes)
    T/H: L D L' U' D2 r2 U2 L' U' L' (no) (yes)
    L/H: L U' L2 R2 U' L' l2 D U2 L (no) (no)
    Pi/H: R' U' L2 U R2 (U' D) r2 R' (U' D) R' (no) (yes)

    L/U: D' L' U' L' U2 L U' L (no) (no)
    Pi/U: L' U R U2 R' U L R U R' (no) (no)

    L/T: U R U D2 R' U' D2 R' (no) (no)
    Pi/T: L' U' L l2 U' l2 U' L' U2 L (no) (no)

    L/L: L U' D' L U D L' (no) (yes)
    Pi/L: L' U' L2 U' L' U2 D' L2 U' L' (no) (no)

    Pi/Pi: L U D L' U2 D2 L U D L' (no) (yes)


    also does anyone have some advice for the final stage? with belt solved there are only 8 edges needing to be permuted and all M edges are in M and S edges in S so I am guessing it would be very doable to generate algs for all the cases but idk. right now I can usually get this stage done in 1 or 2 algs but it isn't too rare for me to run into a situation where I need to use 3, I feel like this is the worst part of my solve right now besides corners.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2011
  7. miotatsu

    miotatsu Member

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    0
    Oct 21, 2010
    Minnesota
    YouTube:
    miotatsu
    I have switched from doing Fix bad edges + permute edges to roux style lse. I find speed solutions of this type to be around 50 moves or so. execution for eo, the belt, and the final stage are all trivial. I have high hopes that it will be possible to get very fast execution of the corner solving. Also I am not sure if I have mentioned this, but you can recognize the corner permutation case from the front and right side of the cube only, which is useful for speed as well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2011
  8. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    FMC round 382
    R2 F' B' D B D B' D' L2 R' F R2 F' B L' F2 B U2 D2 R' L2 B2 D' R' U' F U F' D2 B2

    Human Thistlethwaite
    F B' L' B' – orient edges
    U' D2 R' U2 D2 R - orient all but 2 corners
    R’ F L F’ R F L’ F’ – corner cycle instead of the typical HTA two corner swap
    D L2 – separate corners
    B2 D' B2 D2 . R2 D' R2 D2 – pair up corners
    D' U2 R' L B2 F2 L' R D' – leaves 2+2 edge
    At . insert edge swap D2 L2 D2 : L2 D2 L2 to cancel 2 moves

    Now replace the initial corner cycle by insertion : to cancel two additional moves:
    At : insert D R’ D’ L2 D R’ D’ L2 to cancel 4 moves

    Final:
    F B' L' B' U' D2 R' U2 D2 R D L2 B2 D' B2 L2 D' R' D' L2 D R D L2 R2 D' R2 D U2 R' L B2 F2 L' R D' = 36 HTM, 30 STM
     
  9. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    New PB

    speedcubers.de
    scramble 2 of week 2012-12
    B2 D2 R D2 B2 U2 F2 U2 L B2 L2 D R2 B' R' U' B2 R' B2 L

    R L2 B' - edge orientation
    L U2 R' - place U/D edges
    R' D L2 D' R' - corner orientation
    D L2 U2 D' R2 - separate corners note the extra moves
    R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2 - pair up corners with A-perm
    note that there are no bad edges
    R2 F2 R2 F2 R2 F2- solve 2 edges and line up two for swapping
    F2 B2 U2 F2 B2 - solve edges
    U F2 U' D R2 U' - done

    but why would I bother lining up faces for an edge cycle?
    last line is much better as F2 U' D R2 in which the F2 cancels out

    this makes 32 HTM:
    R L2 B' L U2 R2 D L2 D' R' D L2 U2 D' R F R' B2 R F' R' B2 F2 R2 F2 R2 B2 U2 B2 U' D . R2

    now take out the A-perm and insert D B2 D' F2 D B2 D' F2 at . to cancel 1 additional move for final solution:
    R L2 B' L U2 R2 D L2 D' R' D L2 U2 D' F2 R2 F2 R2 B2 U2 B2 U' D2 B2 D' F2 D B2 D' F2 R2 = 31 HTM
     
  10. guusrs

    guusrs Member

    678
    0
    Aug 4, 2007
    Netherlands
    WCA:
    1982RAZO01
    Impressive!

    And thanx for your recent explanation on how human thistlethwaite works
     
  11. Cubenovice

    Cubenovice Forever Slow

    I just realised I never posted my Human Thistlethwaite FMC PB in this thread.
    It floats around in the FMC thread but there I have a hard time of finding it back.

    So here goes:

    Scramble 1 of the speedcubers.de weekly competition (somewhere back in 2012....)

    scramble
    R2 B2 L2 D B2 R2 D B2 L2 B2 D2 F' R U2 B' U F' R F' U' F' U'

    inverse
    U F U F R' F U' B U2 R' F D2 B2 L2 B2 D' R2 B2 D' L2 B2 R2


    F' B' - Edge orientation
    switch to inverse with premoves F B
    . L' R D R' U2 D L' D L : - Corner orientation
    U' L2 - corner cycle would pair up corners (solve with random commutator, insert cycle later)
    D' F2 B2 - bring corners to correct layer, leaves edge cycle and edge 2+2 swap
    F B - undo premoves at this stage cancels 2 moves

    insertions:
    . pair swap U2 L2 U2 L2 U2 L2 cancel 1 move
    : edge cycle L2 + U' D F2 D' U cancel 3 moves
    + corner cycle L2 U' R2 U L2 U' R2 U cancel 3 moves

    final solution for inverse scramble
    U2 L2 U2 L2 U2 L R D R' U2 D L' D L U' R2 U L2 U' R2 D F2 D' L2 D' F' B'

    for regular scramble:
    B F D L2 D F2 D' R2 U L2 U' R2 U L' D' L D' U2 R D' R' L' U2 L2 U2 L2 U2 = 27 HTM
     
  12. Jaycee

    Jaycee Member

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    Jul 17, 2011
    Crestwood, Illinois
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    I'm curious, and couldn't find anything from a basic search.

    Is there a list of corner orientation algorithms for HTA? I believe Cubenovice called it "edge-friendly Guimond algs".

    I realize there are some algs on Page 4 of this thread, but it doesn't cover all cases, just those that are OLL algs for both faces (Sune, AS, Pi, etc)
     
  13. Renslay

    Renslay Member

    1,715
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    Aug 1, 2011
    Hungary
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    Well, if you have other case, then do a quick orientation parity fix:
    R U' L2 U R'
    (turns DFL ccw and UFR cw)

    or:
    L D' R2 D L'
    (turns DFL cw and UFR ccw)

    It is just 5 moves, so probably doesn't worth the effort to learn another dozens of algorithms for those cases.
     
  14. Jaycee

    Jaycee Member

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    Jul 17, 2011
    Crestwood, Illinois
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    Ah, thanks! That should be useful for now. And if I really get into HTA I could always take the time to find my own ways to solve really bad cases lol.
     
  15. 1001010101001

    1001010101001 Member

    885
    139
    Dec 18, 2017
    Australia
    WCA:
    2017WENR01
    I love methods like Heise, Orient First ,SSC and HTA. I am learning HTA but can't get the 'corner orientation and placement' Can someone pls help me
     
  16. 1001010101001

    1001010101001 Member

    885
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    Dec 18, 2017
    Australia
    WCA:
    2017WENR01
    Okay, now I'm having trouble with the permute edges part. Does anyone have algs?
     

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