For the cross stage, I was wondering if it make sense to pair up edges not on the D layer if I see an easy pair. The gain is that I can do it faster, and the disadvantage is I don't get a cross at the beginning of 3x3 stage. But since I need to hide the edge in the F face anyway, I don't get a full cross when I pair up the last 2 centers. What you guys think?
This could make a really interesting variation where the cross doesn't get solved but the cross edges are twice as efficient or betterFor the cross stage, I was wondering if it make sense to pair up edges not on the D layer if I see an easy pair. The gain is that I can do it faster, and the disadvantage is I don't get a cross at the beginning of 3x3 stage. But since I need to hide the edge in the F face anyway, I don't get a full cross when I pair up the last 2 centers. What you guys think?
This is roughly how I do 5x5 although I have not seen the Hodder proposal.people have talked about Hoya5 (not to be confused with using just "Hoya on 5x5"). I think it was first proposed by Odder, and for a moment was called Hodder. IF I remember correctly, it goes like this:
- F4C (of course)
- 2 non-cross edges using Hoya techniques. Hide them in the BL and BR F2L slots.
- Before, during or after that, solve only 3 cross edges. Adjust D layer to leave the FD slot empty.
- L2C (With FD already empty, this saves you from having to do the [F L] or [F' R'] setup).
-After that, you only have 7 edges left to pair, so you could call it L7E. I'd think you'd wanna finish off the last cross edge first, but it's really flexible.
The benefit is that you everything during L7E is on F or U, nice and visible, and very AvG friendly.
This is roughly how I do 5x5 although I have not seen the Hodder proposal.
I solve the cross, then do F' R', then solve the tredge for whichever midge happens to be in FD, then F L. Then L2C and L7E as you describe, and restoring the cross is easy with L' R F.
Yes I was lazy and couldn't think of a more apt way to reduce it to a single word .It was less of a proposal and more of a "he posted a youtube video of him doing a solve with this method" sorta thing.
Y'know... I can't really think of a reason why not, but I wouldn't make a habit out of it. Like you said, the cross would not be finished, and that gives up the main advantage of using method like Hoya or Yau: a smooth transition into L8E and eventually F2L. Let me ask: are you putting this piece in the D layer in place of a cross edge? Otherwise, how are you preserving it? I'm guessing you could just toss it into the BL slot.
There has been some exploration with stuff like this, and people took it a step farther. If you look back in the thread, people have talked about Hoya5 (not to be confused with using just "Hoya on 5x5"). I think it was first proposed by Odder, and for a moment was called Hodder. IF I remember correctly, it goes like this:
- F4C (of course)
- 2 non-cross edges using Hoya techniques. Hide them in the BL and BR F2L slots.
- Before, during or after that, solve only 3 cross edges. Adjust D layer to leave the FD slot empty.
- L2C (With FD already empty, this saves you from having to do the [F L] or [F' R'] setup).
-After that, you only have 7 edges left to pair, so you could call it L7E. I'd think you'd wanna finish off the last cross edge first, but it's really flexible.
The benefit is that you everything during L7E is on F or U, nice and visible, and very AvG friendly. You could completely avoid rotations, and you already know which pieces are in those back slots, so F2L could potentially get a boost if you're smart about what you throw back there.
A few people gave this method a serious try on 5x5, but I don't know if anyone stuck with it. I think some people were even solving whole F2L+Corner pairs prior to L2C. It's could've proven to be a big advantage to lookahead on 5x5+, where sometimes edge pieces are hard to find. Though, admittedly, I only tried it once and never bothered again.
Last time I mentioned this, someone pointed out that it's inefficient moving the cross out of the way and restoring it later, which is true. Maybe I'll try to find a way around that, but I don't find it much of a problem because it's only ~5 moves, they are automatic, and I'm usually looking ahead while doing them anyway.
Actually here's an idea: before solving Hoya cross, look around for any solved, half-solved or easy non-cross tredges and solve them into the back slots. Then we don't have to look in those for cross edge pieces either. I might have a play with that later and see how well it works.
I actually like this idea a lot. I think it's really move efficient but requires a bit more thinking. But with enough practice it should be automatic as well. Do you know whether people are using this on 4x4?
Last time I mentioned this, someone pointed out that it's inefficient moving the cross out of the way and restoring it later, which is true.
I think your observation was that my entire Hoya stage was inefficient, not just hiding the cross .
I think your observation was that my entire Hoya stage was inefficient, not just hiding the cross .
Yeah I try to do that these days. Generally though, the first thing I look for is midges to make a start on a midge cross 3x3 style, if there are obvious cross inserts like R' F, or if the pieces are plainly visible. If I can't see all four then I won't go hunting for them and will move on to wings if I see them first.I would certainly stick by the suggestion that instead of inserting the middle tredge piece when it's easy to insert wings instead. Not only because midges (is that the correct terminology?) are always easy to insert regardless of their orientation, but you also miss out on accidentally pairing up 2 pieces to insert together.
Interesting, thanks. It looks like you went through a similar process to me. I tried some fancy tricks, but most didn't stick. For me, the advantage of Hoya is brute simplicity: one piece at a time, solve what I see, look ahead, and keep moving.This time I decided to review all of my old videos and point out where I changed what I do and offer some alternatives.
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