# Thread: Corners-First Methods

1. Okay, I want to learn a corners first method so I have a secondary speedcubing method under my belt but I don&#39;t know which to pick and start out with. I was thinking Waterman because it is the Fridrich of corners-first systems but I would like your opoinion. Preferably a "move-light" system(not like a 141 move system) but wherever you say I should start, I&#39;ll do it. Here&#39;s a sight with some descriptions:

http://rubikscube.info/

Also, what&#39;s the fastest time with a corners first system? Is it possible to reach sub-20 and sub-15 with one?

2. Also for the last bit you can do the last steps of roux: http://grrroux.free.fr/method/Step_4.html

3. I would suggest learning Roux. There is a video on strangepuzzle.com of Roux doing a sub 12 second solve using his method, so it&#39;s plenty fast. It also uses fewer algorithms than Fridrich.

4. It&#39;s not corners first ;)

5. I had only heard of Waterman untill this week, but now we have a corners-first topic and this news-item on speedcubing.com:
April 15, 2007 Old video of the French National Championship in 1981. (link by Antoine Simon-Chautemps)

6. I&#39;m learning the beginner and Ortega&#39;s view of the advanced corners-first method, so are these good to start out with? Ortega&#39;s version of the corners-first requires 58 turns which is only 2 turns longer than Fridrich(it would be faster if optimized) and all the algs are short sequences unlike in Fridrich where you have algs that can be 12-14 moves long.

I&#39;m doing a little bit of modifications to it though- for example, the first step I do is permute the bottom layer corners instead of only orienting them, that way the permutation of corners only reuiqres 2 algs. Sois this good?

7. I only know Ortega because I use that for 2x2x2 (random first color, 7 OLL algs for opposite color, 5 PLL algs to finish)

If Fridrich requires less moves AND has longer algs, that means it has fewer algs to perform. I would rather perform 4 long algs then 8 short algs, because 4 long algs would only require 4 pattern recognitions in between.

You will need to do some heavy modifying to compensate for this. Please keep us informed. It is always good to have one more "Non-Fridrich" solver in the world, even if it is your backup-method.

8. For the interested:
I got CLL and ELL algo&#39;s on my site...
http://erikku.er.funpic.org/rubik
check under tutorials and then fridrich I think... though it is not fridrich of course but Raxouz-Schultz..;)

Oh and btw, check out if they count slice moves as 1 or 2. In my opinion they are a bit slower, but not like they count as 2.

9. A slice move is counted as 1 move I believe. I also count R2, M2, L2, etc. moves as one move. Fridrich requires 119 algs where as Ortega requires less than 20(the other algs on it are basically intuitive, you only need learn permutation of corners and orientation, and the algs for midges). Am I correct in saying that positioning the edges(or ledges/redges) is intuitive? That is how it seems to me.

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