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[WR] Sebastian Weyer 26.03 4x4 avg

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tseitsei

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On this "not uploading because..." side topic, I think people should focus more in following the regulations and conduct themselves in an ethical manner above all else.
If someone points out that there's an irregularity with your solve and you can agree that something is not right, or even if you see it while watching the video yourself, you should be the first to acknowledge it and want to maintain the consistency of the results.

Being ethical in this sense is to do the right thing even when other people are not looking.
Ask yourself "Would I be ok if I knew a regulation was violated during my attempt but no one else noticed it?"
If the answer is yes, perhaps you should reflect on "Would I be ok with ending up with someone else's property, if no one would ever find out?". Food for thought.
I think one's true character is revealed in these situations.
I don't want to go into a deep ethical debate but I think in this very specific case of judging solves, the "following the regulations" approach should prevail.

There's a proper place to debate and present concrete examples of situations where the regulations don't do what you consider to be the right thing to do, and present sound suggestions to improve and fix the regulations. The regulations are not perfect. But if they are currently active, they should be applied.

Also, I need to point out something that most people are somewhat ignoring:

VIDEO EVIDENCE IS NOT EXCLUSIVELY USED TO DISCARD SOLVES!

It is actually used a lot more times in helping fix judging mistakes and providing evidence that can allow fixing mistakes, than DNFing solves.
Concrete example: Judge writes 12.17 ; score taker understand 12.77. If there's a video, the competitor can present this issue to the delegate, where video evidence is the most definitive way to argue.

What happens is it's a lot more impactful when it's applied to world class competitors than to everyone else.
There's always more attention and scrutiny towards fast people, but that's like in any sport. Consider UK's Primiership football matches with 25 camera angles versus League Two matches. That's just the way things are.


Going back to the OP, it would be great to see a video, as it's always nice to see world class solves, but since apparently only his own camera recorded the solves and no one else did, it's of course his decision to do what he wants with the footage, but hopefully we will be able to see some time.

Ok this isn't the right place for this but I had to answer this (mods feel free to move this discussion somewhere else if you want)

Hypothetical scenario:
At my next comp I will do, let's say, 4BLD NR. Yay! I'm happy and post the video of my solve here. someone notices that it is scrambled wrongly.
The mistake in the scrambling makes the cube look like just a normal 4x4 scramble too. Nothing lucky or exceptional can be seen, but it is still not the scramble it should.

Now if I understood you correctly you would say that my NR needs to be DNFed?
I can't understand how this could be a case because:
1. I didn't do anything wrong AND
2. I couldn't have even known that the scramble should have been different.
3. It didn't affect my solve in any way. It was just another normal scramble. (If my wrongly scrambled cube had something like half the centers solved or else insanely lucky this point is invalid, but this isn't the case here in our scenario).

If you think my solve should be DNFed then please do tell me:
1. What I should/could have done differently during the competition for my solve to be legit or that I would have at least got a new attempt?
2. If answer to the first question is nothing, then tell me how is this situation supposed to be fair? If someone else makes a mistake that I possibly prevent or even know it has happened, and then my solve is DNFed regardless of my actions. Doesn't sound fair to me...
 

~Adam~

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As above.

Hypothetical situation, I get a 3/3 at MBLD and am very happy with the result. I have black instead of white stickers and compare my memo with someone who has the same letter scheme with white on top and green on front compared to my yellow on top and green on front. Our memoed letters don't match. The most likely situation is that my cubes have been scrambled with black on top but all that can be known for sure is that we couldn't both have had the correct scrambles. Should we both be DNFed?
 
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There is no inalienable right to video footage of a wr solve, nor is it necessarily a norm that should be required of the competitor himself if only to prove his innocence. Isn't that the point of doing solves in competition is that you have people there to validate the solves and you don't need video footage for its legitimacy?

Video should not be used to override decisions of judges because if that's the case, why do we even have judges? If this is too much of an issue, there should be a designated person to double-check that the scrambles match the cube and sign off on it (maybe only for Finals and likely WR-setters e.g. Sebastian). After that point, all results should final, regardless of video footage that might show otherwise, unless it can be shown that the scrambler and scramble-checker conspired to cheat in favor of or against the competitor.

WR-status should not be determined based on scramble accuracy if the scramble in question otherwise follows the standard move-requirements for the given puzzle. IF ANYTHING, the solve should not count towards the person winning the given competition as it would only be unfair to the other competitors present.

/offtopic
 

Stefan

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Now if I understood you correctly you would say that my NR needs to be DNFed?

Where did he say anything like that?

Btw, Lucas Etter made his 7.52 video available again. The one with the wrong scramble orientations.

Pyraminx incident lately is the first thing that comes to mind.

The one where the solver made a partial turn during inspection? (I'm quite out of the loop, don't know everything that happens)
 

tseitsei

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There is no inalienable right to video footage of a wr solve, nor is it necessarily a norm that should be required of the competitor himself if only to prove his innocence. Isn't that the point of doing solves in competition is that you have people there to validate the solves and you don't need video footage for its legitimacy?

Video should not be used to override decisions of judges because if that's the case, why do we even have judges? If this is too much of an issue, there should be a designated person to double-check that the scrambles match the cube and sign off on it (maybe only for Finals and likely WR-setters e.g. Sebastian). After that point, all results should final, regardless of video footage that might show otherwise, unless it can be shown that the scrambler and scramble-checker conspired to cheat in favor of or against the competitor.

WR-status should not be determined based on scramble accuracy if the scramble in question otherwise follows the standard move-requirements for the given puzzle. IF ANYTHING, the solve should not count towards the person winning the given competition as it would only be unfair to the other competitors present.

/offtopic

Well I actually think that video evidence SHOULD BE USED, but only IF THE COMPETITOR DOES SOMETHING THAT VIOLATES REGULATIONS.

Because misscrambles and stuff like that is not the fault of the competitor those solves should still be legit.

But mistakes made by the competitor should be pointed out and judged accordingly. For example I think drew brads' pyraminx dnf was right call, because even tough the move in inspection was no doubt accident and no advantage was gained it was still COMPETITORS OWN FAULT and totally prevebtable by competitor himself.
 

spitcuba

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Ok to clarify some things:

I only knew one person who filmed my solves and I messaged him, but he didn't reply yet and I didn't know that EMI also filmed some solves. I will upload the video as soon as possible.
 

kcl

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Ok to clarify some things:

I only knew one person who filmed my solves and I messaged him, but he didn't reply yet and I didn't know that EMI also filmed some solves. I will upload the video as soon as possible.

lol welcome to Speedsolving, where you cause massive controversy if you don't put up a WR video instantly
 

Tim Major

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oh wait, you're right


"Welcome to Speedsolving, where every record broken is analyzed to a point of creating controversy"

Except it seemed the majority of the speedsolving.com community was against the various DNFs.

tseitsei;1016937 2. I [B said:
couldn't have even known[/B] that the scramble should have been different.
3. It didn't affect my solve in any way. It was just another normal scramble. (If my wrongly scrambled cube had something like half the centers solved or else insanely lucky this point is invalid, but this isn't the case here in our scenario).

If you think my solve should be DNFed then please do tell me:
2. If answer to the first question is nothing, then tell me how is this situation supposed to be fair? If someone else makes a mistake that I possibly prevent or even know it has happened, and then my solve is DNFed regardless of my actions. Doesn't sound fair to me...

This is my concern with the system too. No chance for a resolve. If I get an LL skip but with average F2L on a mjsscramble and it was noticed, the solve would be DNF'd potentially ruining a PB comp average. Not only would I have done nothing wrong, TWO PBs would be taken away without giving me a chance to prove myself on the real scramble. Should we DNF people who get E1/E2 scrambles due to timer malfunctions, as they had different scrambles to other competitors?
 

kcl

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Except it seemed the majority of the speedsolving.com community was against the various DNFs.



This is my concern with the system too. No chance for a resolve. If I get an LL skip but with average F2L on a mjsscramble and it was noticed, the solve would be DNF'd potentially ruining a PB comp average. Not only would I have done nothing wrong, TWO PBs would be taken away without giving me a chance to prove myself on the real scramble. Should we DNF people who get E1/E2 scrambles due to timer malfunctions, as they had different scrambles to other competitors?

I never thought of it this way, and I actually really like this argument. If someone's judge messes up and they get a resolve it could easily be a lolscramble. It's not like we dnf it for being e1.
 
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