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Should 3x3x3 With Feet Remain an Official WCA Event?

Which option describes you best?


  • Total voters
    484

cmhardw

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Given this justification, lack of counterexamples where media has seriously hurt (or could hurt) the image of cubing, and given the fact that media alone is mentioned in this topic (which means it has its relevancy for feet), I would like to suggest to Sarah to move or, better yet, add a media statement to the "Negative outcomes of removing Feet:" with something like "Removing the event could debilitate the media exposure cubing currently has in certain parts of the world.".

Your post is excellent, and very eloquently written! I particularly agree with the last part, quoted above.
 

Kirjava

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Ooh this looks fun. Let me try, too:

It is possible to solve a rubik's cube with your feet on TV in Brazil while it is also an official WCA event.

I was saying so because a reason given for keeping feet is the positive media attention it produces in Brazil. Removing feet as an event will not disable that ability, thus negating the reason.
 

cmhardw

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I was saying so because a reason given for keeping feet is the positive media attention it produces in Brazil. Removing feet as an event will not disable that ability, thus negating the reason.

In your opinion, which way is more difficult to get the attention of the media in order to do a TV foot cubing solve?

1) By approaching a reporter who is reporting on a WCA competition of which foot cubing is an event, or
2) By approaching a reporter on your own about a skill you have
 

Crazycubemom

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Something what I hate is the Feet event , the mat and the timer smell, it's annoying to be around that mat and timer.
Suppose the organizer to clean them up with disinfection gel or spray as they did at the Belgium Summer Open 2014 and if Ton as Organizer Czech Open ( I always clean up all mats and timers with Disinfection Spray )
 

Kirjava

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In your opinion, which way is more difficult to get the attention of the media in order to do a TV foot cubing solve?

1) By approaching a reporter who is reporting on a WCA competition of which foot cubing is an event, or
2) By approaching a reporter on your own about a skill you have

Two, obviously - you posed a bad question.

Why can't a reporter reporting on a WCA event be shown foot cubing too, even if it's not an event? They will show non-WCA puzzles like 8x8x8 in shots as examples of other cubing extremes, for example.
 

cmhardw

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Why can't a reporter reporting on a WCA event be shown foot cubing too, even if it's not an event? They will show non-WCA puzzles like 8x8x8 in shots as examples of other cubing extremes, for example.

They can, a reporter in an area that currently has lots of foot cubers probably would show foot cubers even if it was no longer an official WCA event.

I was saying so because a reason given for keeping feet is the positive media attention it produces in Brazil. Removing feet as an event will not disable that ability, thus negating the reason.

Let me see if I am interpreting this correctly. I think that you are trying to refute this claim (below):

"Removing the event could debilitate the media exposure cubing currently has in certain parts of the world.".

You then follow up by saying:

Removing feet as an event will not disable that ability, thus negating the reason.

I paraphrase this as:
"So removing feet as an event does not disable the ability of a media story to bring positive attention to the cubing community."

I agree with this.

... thus negating the reason.

So if I understand completely you are saying that:

"Removing the event could debilitate the media exposure cubing currently has in certain parts of the world.".

is completely invalid as a reason to support foot cubing because (what follows below is my paraphrase):
"...removing feet as an event does not disable the ability of a media story to bring positive attention to the cubing community."

The italicized argument above could be used to say that we can remove absolutely any event, or even ALL events. Media exposure about cubing can be positive without the presence of the WCA at all.

I would like to use your same argument to say that we should remove all events from the WCA, as that would not disable the ability of media exposure to still shine a positive light on our community of speedcubers.

--edit--

If anything, perhaps we should not be considering the effects of media exposure at all when deciding whether or not to remove 3x3x3 with feet as an event?
 
Last edited:

cubizh

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It's possible to solve a rubik's cube with your feet on TV in Brazil without it being a WCA event.
Not only I agree with that statement, I actually stated it in my earlier post:
(...) I think removing the event as official, it would certainly not take away the ability to perform feet solving on tv (...)

The point I was trying to make was that while being on TV doing feet solves (which is undeniably something media seems to be targeting, for any given reason), it would make it harder, or at least more forced and unnatural, to introduce the topic of speedcubing, aiming the growth of the sport, or at least make people aware/interested in speedcubing (what we do), promoting all other WCA events except what you were actually called to do.
 
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Kirjava

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The italicized argument above could be used to say that we can remove absolutely any event, or even ALL events.

It's not an argument for removal (I don't have a truly objective one of those), I'm just saying that positive media exposure doesn't rely on the WCA - so saying feet gives positive media attention doesn't feel like a huge reason to keep it. Yes, this also applies to all events.

As you concluded, it's a moot point.
 

cmhardw

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It's not an argument for removal (I don't have a truly objective one of those), I'm just saying that positive media exposure doesn't rely on the WCA - so saying feet gives positive media attention doesn't feel like a huge reason to keep it. Yes, this also applies to all events.

As you concluded, it's a moot point.

I think the root of this issue is that I don't have any truly objective arguments either for feet cubing remaining an event. It seems that the decision to remove or keep feet as an event must be made using subjective reasoning.

Is there some way to get a really accurate sense from the community of how many people want to remove feet, and how many want to keep? Are there members of this forum who could start this thread in other language communities as well?

Perhaps collecting the poll results from many different countries would be useful in making this decision.
 

Kirjava

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I think the root of this issue is that I don't have any truly objective arguments either for feet cubing remaining an event. It seems that the decision to remove or keep feet as an event must be made using subjective reasoning.

I'm glad you think that lack of objective reason isn't reason enough to not consider rocking the boat.

Is there some way to get a really accurate sense from the community of how many people want to remove feet, and how many want to keep? Are there members of this forum who could start this thread in other language communities as well?

Perhaps collecting the poll results from many different countries would be useful in making this decision.

I worry that this data collection would be inaccurate for various reasons.
 

qqwref

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I think the root of this issue is that I don't have any truly objective arguments either for feet cubing remaining an event.
How could there be any truly objective arguments for removing or keeping an event?

No, I'm serious. What's the criterion for whether something's an event? Why solving with feet and not solving with elbows? Why 4BLD and not 4OH? Why Rubik's Clock and not Rubik's Fifteen? The truth is, there's no objective standard. There is nothing you can prove about an event (with statistics or mathematics) that will give the WCA no choice but to add or remove the event. We have added and removed events over the years by more or less following the community's feelings, and the set of events we have now is certainly somewhat arbitrary. It's certainly not the most interesting or mathematically pure or difficult puzzles, and it's probably not even the most popular either, if you discount the huge popularity boost that an event gets just by being official. So if you want to add or remove an event, you can't argue that it does or does not match the requirements an event needs to have, because there is no such concept.
 

cubizh

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I generally agree with what you said.
Please note that my previous statement was supposed to be a comment regarding "Negative outcomes for removing feet", which, in my view, equates to "if the 'Rubik's Cube:with feet' is removed / becomes unofficial, what can change/what can the impact be for the WCA members and for speedcubing in general". In this regard, I think attracting more media attention to speedcubing/competitions where other events take place (which in turn can bring more people to the sport), in the previously stated context, can be a bit more cumbersome. Doesn't mean it's impossible or unfeasible, but would certainly, at least, be distinct to what currently happens, in my oppinion. Reading OP's list made me reflect that this idea was missing and made me state my view on this particular matter.

It's different than trying to make a case for a reason to keep or remove the event, which was not what I was trying to do.
I agree that there is no clear and, most importantly, objective set of reasons to keep or remove this particular event that unquestionably rises above all others.

EDIT:
How could there be any truly objective arguments for removing or keeping an event?
If the number of competitions with an event steadily decline over the course of over a year up to the point where no one actually competes or wants to organize a competition with that event anymore, seems somewhat an objective argument to remove an event.
 
Last edited:

TimMc

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Again, I would like to read more from other countries particularly regarding how media discusses competitions (with feet, but also, not) in programs like talk shows or news related spots.

This kind of sums up the media exposure that the Rubik's Cube gets in Australia (not feet related):
Bad and good.

The reasons for removing an event really need to be presented clearly with evidence to support each claim rather than personal opinion. If there really aren't any genuine reasons for removing 333feet then this time could be better spent: improving operational rules for the association (including how to add/remove events), designing new timing equipment, upgrading the web site etc. If there are genuine reasons, we could also look at resolving those issues rather than scrapping the event entirely. I.e. If some scramblers kept eating food and made cubes sticky, we could just ask them not to eat food + wash their hands + wear gloves.

Tim.
 

DrKorbin

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My 2 cents:

I think WF hurts the image of cubing.
I have seen many times when a speedcuber gives an interview and he says: "We can solve it with one hand, blindfolded, with feet", and the interviewer interrupts him and says: "WITH YOUR FEET? OH MY GOD!!1111!!1" Probably the interviewer doesn't think that we are nerds, and is truly impressed that we solve with feet. However...
Another example: during one competition a large crowd of people gathered around wf-solvers and applaused after each attempt. While 3x3 bld event didn't attract so much attention.

See what I mean?
WF hurts the image of cubing because non-cubers think that WF is amazing and much more cooler than BLD. While BLD is much harder and basically everyone who can solve 3x3 with hands can do it with feet.

So if media in your country is amazed by WF solvers and is not amazed by BLD solvers then probably the image of cubing in your country is already damaged.
 

Musicalboy2

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My 2 cents:

I think WF hurts the image of cubing.
I have seen many times when a speedcuber gives an interview and he says: "We can solve it with one hand, blindfolded, with feet", and the interviewer interrupts him and says: "WITH YOUR FEET? OH MY GOD!!1111!!1" Probably the interviewer doesn't think that we are nerds, and is truly impressed that we solve with feet. However...
Another example: during one competition a large crowd of people gathered around wf-solvers and applaused after each attempt. While 3x3 bld event didn't attract so much attention.

See what I mean?
WF hurts the image of cubing because non-cubers think that WF is amazing and much more cooler than BLD. While BLD is much harder and basically everyone who can solve 3x3 with hands can do it with feet.

So if media in your country is amazed by WF solvers and is not amazed by BLD solvers then probably the image of cubing in your country is already damaged.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm interpreting your general argument as "Feet is bad for media because BLD doesn't look impressive"

Even if feet was pushing out BLD, why does this actually damage the image of cubing? (You even said in your post that they thought it was cool)

Let's take an extreme example from the same line of thinking... Megaminx is not particularly more difficult than a 3x3. Doing well in FMC takes a lot of knowledge. If megaminx is shown and is thought to be a lot more interesting to the general public than FMC, is it automatically bad for the image of cubing?
 
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