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Intuition Competition [Weekly]

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TDM

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So because of rule 1, and me not being able to find a way to explain (R2 U2)3 or (R2 F2 R2 U2)2, I can't actually find a solution for this. Even some really inefficient CFOP with commutator LLs has slice moves in.
And cmhardw, I think it's fine to use commutators if you explain them in enough detail, like I have done in past solutions (not as much as I should have done in round 2, but I used one in round 1 that I explained better).
 
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This weeks winners are TDM and porkynator! Gongratulations to them!

1- TDM (12 moves STM)
2- porkynator (17 moves STM)


The task they were given was:
With the F2L sovled, you must flip the orientation of all four edges of the U layer without affecting their permutation. The orientation and permutation of the corners don't matter. F2L must be maintained.

The new task to be completed is:
Slice moves are prohibited for this challenge. Any replacement slice moves (L R', F2 B2, etc.) are also forbidden. The UF edge must go to the UB position, the UB edge to UR, and the UR edge to UF. The orientations of these edges must be maintained. Nothing else on the cube may be modified in any way, permutation or orientation.

i don't think this competition will work too well if people already know an algorithm for the case they are trying to solve, especially because some people (eg. me) understand why some algorithms do what they do (decompositions n stuff) so some standard algs can be intuitive

anyway heres an alg that does that, that I found intuitively

y' R U2 R' U2 R' F R U R U' R2 F' r U R U' r' y
 

cmhardw

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The rule is that if it is a memorized group of moves (like a algorithm) of which it's effects are already known, then it is not allowed. But if you create a commutator or conjugate using intuition during the challenge, then you may use that. The rules are to prevent others from using already known algorithms (or even partial algorithms) to achieve solution unless of course those algorithms are like 3 or less moves which would likely be used anyway. However the rules are interpreted, the goal should be to do everything intuitively, not relying on pre-memorized solutions to a problem.

It's not commutators and conjugates that are forbidden, it's the already memorized sets of moves that could be used in them that are not allowed. The technique of using commutators and conjugates to achieve a solution is allowed as long as it isn't done using already known move sequences.

EDIT: Rules have been updated for clarification. Thanks!

Thank you for the clarification. I'm pretty sure I followed the spirit of the rules when coming up with my solutions for this week's challenge. When you judge/read/grade them please let me know if I have followed the rules as you intended them. I basically went with making sure that I could fully explain the logic behind every turn I did, and I provided that explanation in my answers.

I gave two answers, only because I discovered the longer solution first and was really proud of it because I had never before seen the alg I ended up creating! However, I also found a shorter solution and would like that one to be my official answer for the challenge. :)
 

Dane man

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Thank you for the clarification. I'm pretty sure I followed the spirit of the rules when coming up with my solutions for this week's challenge. When you judge/read/grade them please let me know if I have followed the rules as you intended them. I basically went with making sure that I could fully explain the logic behind every turn I did, and I provided that explanation in my answers.

I gave two answers, only because I discovered the longer solution first and was really proud of it because I had never before seen the alg I ended up creating! However, I also found a shorter solution and would like that one to be my official answer for the challenge. :)
You're welcome. And your shorter solution has been counted. Your solutions are fantastic, though the first solution you presented (24 moves) would not be counted because it includes algorithms that you already knew, but as you have discovered, this isn't a problem as there is always another way to find a solution. But brilliant job with your solutions.

I don't think this competition will work too well if people already know an algorithm for the case they are trying to solve, especially because some people (eg. me) understand why some algorithms do what they do (decompositions n stuff) so some standard algs can be intuitive.
Actually, the goal of the competition is to overcome that issue. The rules are built to make those who cube seek to discover a solution for themselves instead of relying on pre-memorized solutions. Of course you're allowed to understand what your memorized alg does (and that understanding can help you create a new one), but you cannot use it as your solution. You must present something else, and trust me, there are plenty of algorithms to be found for each case. :)

Also, you need to explain your algorithm or it will not be counted.
 
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Actually, the goal of the competition is to overcome that issue. The rules are built to make those who cube seek to discover a solution for themselves instead of relying on pre-memorized solutions. Of course you're allowed to understand what your memorized alg does (and that understanding can help you create a new one), but you cannot use it as your solution. You must present something else, and trust me, there are plenty of algorithms to be found for each case. :)

but that would mean that someone who hasnt memorized an alg (lets ignore your no slice moves rule and say R2 U S' U2 S U R2) could find that alg and explain it as

R2 U: setup
S' U2 S U2: 3 cycle
U' R2: unsetup

but someone else who already knows that alg couldnt enter using the same alg with the same explanation

anyway heres a different alg:

F2 D R2 D' R2 U R2 U' R2 F2 R2 B2 R F R' B2 R F' R

[y':[B':[R,B'L2B]][R2:[f2,DB2D']]]'

[B':[R,B'L2B]] = corner 3 cycle which just happens to be known as an A perm
[R2:[f2,DB2D']] = 1x1x2 block 3 cycle which just happens to be known as a J perm
 

Dane man

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but that would mean that someone who hasnt memorized an alg (lets ignore your no slice moves rule and say R2 U S' U2 S U R2) could find that alg and explain it as

R2 U: setup
S' U2 S U2: 3 cycle
U' R2: unsetup

but someone else who already knows that alg couldnt enter using the same alg with the same explanation

anyway heres a different alg:

F2 D R2 D' R2 U R2 U' R2 F2 R2 B2 R F R' B2 R F' R

[y':[B':[R,B'L2B]][R2:[f2,DB2D']]]'

[B':[R,B'L2B]] = corner 3 cycle which just happens to be known as an A perm
[R2:[f2,DB2D']] = 1x1x2 block 3 cycle which just happens to be known as a J perm
You will need more explanation than that to justify an algorithm of that length. You're supposed to demonstrate that you understand the mechanisms involved in the solution process, not simply say "it has this effect, then it has that effect".

And yes, the natural effect is that, the more you have memorized, the less you are allowed to use. This is so that it can be a fair challenge. To a beginner with few things memorized it will still be a challenge, and someone who has lots of experience and memorized algorithms under his belt can enjoy the same level of challenge. A challenger won't be condemned for discovering an algorithm simply because someone, somewhere already discovered it, even if it is a really common algorithm. As long as the competitor arrived at that algorithm on his/her own, using his/her intuition without extra assistance, and can explain how/why it works, then it counts as valid.
 
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You will need more explanation than that to justify an algorithm of that length. You're supposed to demonstrate that you understand the mechanisms involved in the solution process, not simply say "it has this effect, then it has that effect".

I wrote it as a bunch of commutators and conjugates, how am I supposed to explain it more than that?
 

cmhardw

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You will need more explanation than that to justify an algorithm of that length. You're supposed to demonstrate that you understand the mechanisms involved in the solution process, not simply say "it has this effect, then it has that effect".

And yes, the natural effect is that, the more you have memorized, the less you are allowed to use. This is so that it can be a fair challenge. To a beginner with few things memorized it will still be a challenge, and someone who has lots of experience and memorized algorithms under his belt can enjoy the same level of challenge. A challenger won't be condemned for discovering an algorithm simply because someone, somewhere already discovered it, even if it is a really common algorithm. As long as the competitor arrived at that algorithm on his/her own, using his/her intuition without extra assistance, and can explain how/why it works, then it counts as valid.

You should disqualify both of my solutions to this week's challenge then. I write the rest in spoilers for those still working on the challenge:
I've known the effects of R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 and R2 F2 R2 U2 R2 F2 R2 U2 for years, long before I ever understood why they worked. Now I understand why they work, so I would consider them intuitive. However, if I can't use sequences that I've known about, then neither of my solutions are valid by your rules.

I interpreted the rules as "Be able to explain every turn in your solution on a completely intuitive level", but based on your recent posts I think that the rules are:
1) Be able to explain every turn in your solution on a completely intuitive level
2) Derive a solution that is previously unknown to you, using component sequences that are previously unknown to you

Is that correct?
 

Dane man

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You should disqualify both of my solutions to this week's challenge then. I write the rest in spoilers for those still working on the challenge:
I've known the effects of R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 and R2 F2 R2 U2 R2 F2 R2 U2 for years, long before I ever understood why they worked. Now I understand why they work, so I would consider them intuitive. However, if I can't use sequences that I've known about, then neither of my solutions are valid by your rules.

I interpreted the rules as "Be able to explain every turn in your solution on a completely intuitive level", but based on your recent posts I think that the rules are:
1) Be able to explain every turn in your solution on a completely intuitive level
2) Derive a solution that is previously unknown to you, using component sequences that are previously unknown to you

Is that correct?
The second point is 100% correct.
The first point is also correct. You should be able to explain what every move does, but you don't need to be super nit-picky about every detail if it's unnecessary. If you can explain a group of moves like "R U R'" by says something like "insert F2L slice" then you can do that because it's something obvious, but don't just gloss over the effects of the algorithm or parts of it. If a group of algorithms causes corners to rotate, then one should be able to explain how it makes them rotate instead of simply saying "it rotates the corners". There is a balance. And it's up to each one to feel it out, and if I feel that someone is generalizing too much, I'll give them a heads up so they can explain a little more. I don't require a perfect explanation of every detail, but enough that one could understand "why" that algorithm works.

I don't want to be too harsh, but it's a requirement for the sake of the competitors, both for fairness, and to encourage the competitors to really get a grasp on what is happening when they are executing moves.

Your posts are perfect because you clearly demonstrate that you have a full grasp of what happens in your algorithms, and it's easy enough for someone else to see how it works.
 

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Because I suck at this, I'll try it:
z' y2 R' U2 R U' R' U2 R U2 R' U R2 U2 R' U2 B F' L F R F' L' F R' B' F' D F R' F2 R B' R' F2 R B F' D' F

z' y2
R' U2 R U' R' U2 R U2 R' U R - F2L solve BR Pair, intuitive,I don't use this alg
R U2 R' U2 - solve all edges by inserting the last one, intuitive
(B: [F' L F : R]) - commutator
(F' D F:[R' F2 R, B']) - Epic 3 move conjugate commie-tator
I feel like my signature is the way I feel about this solution.

Also, if it's a commutator, I don't see why it needs explanation. Ben's solution is fine
 

cmhardw

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The second point is 100% correct.
The first point is also correct. You should be able to explain what every move does, but you don't need to be super nit-picky about every detail if it's unnecessary.

...

Your posts are perfect because you clearly demonstrate that you have a full grasp of what happens in your algorithms, and it's easy enough for someone else to see how it works.

Ok, thank you for taking the time to clarify my questions. I think I understand now. Allow me to paraphrase your explanation of the rules via an example, and let me know if this is correct:
It would never be allowable to use a sequence of moves that "twists the corners". Instead you should always derive a sequence from basic principles, and be able to explain clearly how that sequence twists the corners.

If my solutions are ok by the rules, then in the future I will definitely shoot for the same level of clarity and intuitiveness of the sequences I use, and I definitely plan to be a regular participant in this competition! Very cool idea!

Thanks again!
 

TDM

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Because I suck at this, I'll try it:
z' y2 R' U2 R U' R' U2 R U2 R' U R2 U2 R' U2 B F' L F R F' L' F R' B' F' D F R' F2 R B' R' F2 R B F' D' F

z' y2
R' U2 R U' R' U2 R U2 R' U R - F2L solve BR Pair, intuitive,I don't use this alg
R U2 R' U2 - solve all edges by inserting the last one, intuitive
(B: [F' L F : R]) - commutator
(F' D F:[R' F2 R, B']) - Epic 3 move conjugate commie-tator
I feel like my signature is the way I feel about this solution.

Also, if it's a commutator, I don't see why it needs explanation. Ben's solution is fine
That solution isn't allowed; see the parts I bolded.
 

Lucas Garron

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The new task to be completed is:
Slice moves are prohibited for this challenge. Any replacement slice moves (L R', F2 B2, etc.) are also forbidden. The UF edge must go to the UB position, the UB edge to UR, and the UR edge to UF. The orientations of these edges must be maintained. Nothing else on the cube may be modified in any way, permutation or orientation.

That's a rather weird restriction. You should also number your challenges, and you should *still* define what maintaining orientation means. You should really just give a picture or give us an exact cycle/Singmaster state description.

Anyhow, here's an obvious one that avoids slices: [x2 B2: [U R2 U', l2] [F' R' F, L2]] (18h)

EDIT: Actually, here's another fun one: [R2 D': [R' F2 R, R U2 R']] (13h simplified)
EDIT 2: Oh, interesting. I tried to cyclic shift that last one to remove one more move, and guess what? Our friend, the 12h: [R2 D': (R2 F2 R2 U2)2]

EDIT 3: And of course, there's the ever-popular one: [R U': [R U R U R: U'] R] (simplifies to 11h). Intuitive enough, but the fact that the core part it only affects edges is something I would probably find by experimentation rather than design, if I didn't already know how it works.
 
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I found it hard not to do something easy to see that used M moves or the algorithm (R2 U2)3 in it somewhere, but I finally came up with a good solution. O also had the idea of solving the edges while messing up the corners, then solving the corners with commutators that don't use slice moves, but that seemed kind of cheap.

y' (L' U' L U) (R U R' U') (U' L' U L) (U R U' R')

I am pretty sure I've found this series of moves through messing around before, but I didn't have it committed to memory and was not thinking of it while doing this.

I started out thinking that I need to do 4 2-swaps with the edges rather than 2 because doing only 2 2-swaps as a commutator would involve slice moves. So I needed to swap UB and UR, then UF and UR, then UB and UR again, and finally, UF and UR for the finish. After doing a y', the moves (L' U' L U) do the first swap and (R U R' U') do the second. Doing these backwards does the third and forth swaps. If I do each of them backwards I also fix the cube excluding the pieces affected by both series of moves. Besides the edges being cycled, the (after a y') ULB and URB corners are the only two affected. Both series of moves affect the 2 corners in question in opposite ways, so they corners must be solved. It should also be pointed out that the corners permutation must be solved because you cannot swap only 2 pieces.
 
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