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New Forum Rules

Sa967St

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The Site Rules have been updated. Please take the time to read them.

There are no new significant rules, but there are some important clarifications that everyone should be aware about, especially 1b and "Examples of Spam Posts and Threads".

Feel free to address any concerns or ask questions about the Site Rules in this thread.
 

IRNjuggle28

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[clarification: this post was originally posted in this thread]


I'm a bit late to this, but whatever. Still want to say stuff.

The moderation team is pretty unnecessary and doesn't improve the forum much IMO. Banning someone just because they don't use good grammar is dumb. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to post. The forum rules in general are way too stringent for what this forum is. All the post merging and thread merging that the mods do is a tiny bit useful, but it's absolutely not worth their time. It's also irritating seeing the occasional power hungry mod warn people about bickering and close threads whenever anyone becomes opinionated. And we don't need a profanity filter. Anyone who's old enough to discuss puzzle theory knows what the words mean anyway. The forum rules are stupid.

I got a bit off topic there, but to the point: Ben uses bad grammar, but he's a great solver. I don't think anyone here is going to argue with that. He knows stuff about cubes, and virtual puzzles, and probably has stuff to say that's perfect for what this forum is about. It's ridiculous that someone like Ben is banned but there can be dozens and dozens of noobs using perfect grammar to tell us about their experience reinventing petrus or asking which 3x3 method is the fastest, and they're welcome here. Is there seriously anyone who would rather read someone who doesn't know what they're talking about write a thread proposing a 1LLL method that already exists as their idea than read something by Ben that has bad grammar but some actual content??? Because that's what the actions taken by the forum imply.

Preventing "spam" is pointless. Almost all the threads that aren't stickied die after days or weeks anyway. The very worst that Ben can do is add one extra page to a thread by posting some unneccesary comments. Big deal. It wastes almost none of anyone else's time, and it'll just be forgotten in a very short time. And all this is assuming that what Ben is saying is pointless, which I don't think it is. The people who should be banned are the legitimate spambots. And that's pretty much it. Hurry up and unban Ben's main account. He's been banned long enough to get the message anyway.
 
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XTowncuber

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I'm a bit late to this, but whatever. Still want to say stuff.

The moderation team is pretty unnecessary and doesn't improve the forum much IMO. Banning someone just because they don't use good grammar is dumb. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to post. The forum rules in general are way too stringent for what this forum is. All the post merging and thread merging that the mods do is a tiny bit useful, but it's absolutely not worth their time. It's also irritating seeing the occasional power hungry mod warn people about bickering and close threads whenever anyone becomes opinionated. And we don't need a profanity filter. Anyone who's old enough to discuss puzzle theory knows what the words mean anyway. The forum rules are stupid.

I got a bit off topic there, but to the point: Ben uses bad grammar, but he's a great solver. I don't think anyone here is going to argue with that. He knows stuff about cubes, and virtual puzzles, and probably has stuff to say that's perfect for what this forum is about. It's ridiculous that someone like Ben is banned but there can be dozens and dozens of noobs using perfect grammar to tell us about their experience reinventing petrus or asking which 3x3 method is the fastest, and they're welcome here. Is there seriously anyone who would rather read someone who doesn't know what they're talking about write a thread proposing a 1LLL method that already exists as their idea than read something by Ben that has bad grammar but some actual content??? Because that's what the actions taken by the forum imply.

Preventing "spam" is pointless. Almost all the threads that aren't stickied die after days or weeks anyway. The very worst that Ben can do is add one extra page to a thread by posting some unneccesary comments. Big deal. It wastes almost none of anyone else's time, and it'll just be forgotten in a very short time. And all this is assuming that what Ben is saying is pointless, which I don't think it is. The people who should be banned are the legitimate spambots. And that's pretty much it. Hurry up and unban Ben's main account. He's been banned long enough to get the message anyway.

Pretty sure Ben was banned more for his corrosive attitude and for frequently picking on newer members. Just a few points about the rest of your post:

You will notice that when a mod closes a thread, it's almost always because constructive discussion had ended.

As for the profanity, I really like that this site discourages it. I hate having to read through posts with a ton of rude words. Why not have a profanity filter? It makes the site a better place to be, particularly for young members.

Spam is annoying, and it crowds the front page. The mods get rid of spam for the same reason you would try to filter spam on your email. It's even more annoying on a forum because a person cannot tell by the title if a post is spam.

Are you an anarchist or something?
 

qqwref

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You will notice that when a mod closes a thread, it's almost always because constructive discussion had ended.
I disagree. A closed thread usually just means the mods don't like what's going on, whether it's "constructive" or not. I can remember several times where I wanted to continue talking in a thread but it had been closed.

As for the profanity, I really like that this site discourages it. I hate having to read through posts with a ton of rude words. Why not have a profanity filter? It makes the site a better place to be, particularly for young members.
I can understand that, but it just makes things confusing sometimes, like when words such as id iot are in the filter. I think it should include fewer words, and if someone posts something really bad, you can just report it anyway.

Spam is annoying, and it crowds the front page. The mods get rid of spam for the same reason you would try to filter spam on your email. It's even more annoying on a forum because a person cannot tell by the title if a post is spam.
It's not just actual spam that's annoying. Certain users have many hundreds of posts and yet almost no content in any of them. How come those people stay on the forum and don't even get temporarily banned from time to time, while someone like ben (who knows a lot, who has programmed his own simulators, and who is one of the driving forces behind a set of unofficial events becoming popular) can't stay? If the mods do something that follows the rules but hurts the community, is it still the correct action?

Basically the question is, do we value the people who know stuff and create new things, or the people who can follow the rules? And which *should* we value?
 

ThomasJE

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It's not just actual spam that's annoying. Certain users have many hundreds of posts and yet almost no content in any of them. How come those people stay on the forum and don't even get temporarily banned from time to time, while someone like ben (who knows a lot, who has programmed his own simulators, and who is one of the driving forces behind a set of unofficial events becoming popular) can't stay? If the mods do something that follows the rules but hurts the community, is it still the correct action?

From the posts that I have seen, Ben often flamed new users that had not had the chance to integrate within the community before that maybe did not know as much as others. I believe that this and the fact that some of his posts were unreadable were some of the factors that got him banned (mods please correct me if I'm wrong).

Ben does know a lot, and is a very active member of the community. Even after he was banned, he was still making updates to his 15 puzzle simulator and giving them to soup to upload and post on his behalf. Maybe he should have one last chance, but it shouldn't be up to him to create a new account; it should be up to the mods to decide and to Ben to prove that he can once again be the polite member of our community that was always coming up with new ideas.

Basically the question is, do we value the people who know stuff and create new things, or the people who can follow the rules? And which *should* we value?

Both. We don't particularly want people who are knowledgeable but impolite, and people who contribute nothing but are polite and courteous while doing it are not of much value to the community. There needs to be a fine balance between the two.
 

IRNjuggle28

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You will notice that when a mod closes a thread, it's almost always because constructive discussion had ended.

"Constructive" is arbitrary. Just because a thread isn't "actively adding to the knowledge of the speedsolving community" doesn't mean it isn't constructive. People enjoy casually discussing things. If people didn't enjoy posting on those threads, they wouldn't, and I think that the enjoyment alone makes posting "constructive." This isn't a classroom. If someone has fun with a conversation, I don't think the mods need to go close it just because they think there isn't a point to the discussion. If nothing else, having other speedcubers to talk to and be motivated by keeps people interested, and leads to people wanting to push the boundaries of cubing and innovate. It's not pointless.

As for the profanity, I really like that this site discourages it. I hate having to read through posts with a ton of rude words. Why not have a profanity filter? It makes the site a better place to be, particularly for young members.

The profanity filter doesn't even work. It censors words like (remove the spaces in the middle) boas tful, and distrus tful, just because of a four letter sequence in the middle of it that's considered profane. Which is annoying. It also doesn't prevent people from being rude. Kirjava and company just think of worse things to say.

As for the stuff about Ben, maybe he was. I don't know. His time on here predated any of mine. But I'm in a cubing group with him on facebook, and still see how he talks and how he acts towards others. He's a cool guy. Does a bunch of cool puzzles. Grammar isn't amazing, but not as bad as it was, and I've never seen him pick on another person other than as a joke.

EDIT: should've read qq's post before replying. We said some similar stuff.

Basically the question is, do we value the people who know stuff and create new things, or the people who can follow the rules? And which *should* we value?

Exactly.
 
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Tim Major

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If you think mods stick 100% to those rules you're wrong.

I think a similar user would be Kirjava, contributes a LOT, but has also come on speedsolving drunk numerous times and posted random crap and "suggestive" pictures. I'm sure if Kirjava wasn't constructive he would've been permabanned by now too. Why is an exception made for him and not Ben?

(For the record I disagree with either being banned as they've both been more constructive than the majority of users)
 

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I'm a bit late to this, but whatever. Still want to say stuff.

The moderation team is pretty unnecessary and doesn't improve the forum much IMO. Banning someone just because they don't use good grammar is dumb. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to post. The forum rules in general are way too stringent for what this forum is. All the post merging and thread merging that the mods do is a tiny bit useful, but it's absolutely not worth their time. It's also irritating seeing the occasional power hungry mod warn people about bickering and close threads whenever anyone becomes opinionated. And we don't need a profanity filter. Anyone who's old enough to discuss puzzle theory knows what the words mean anyway. The forum rules are stupid.

I got a bit off topic there, but to the point: Ben uses bad grammar, but he's a great solver. I don't think anyone here is going to argue with that. He knows stuff about cubes, and virtual puzzles, and probably has stuff to say that's perfect for what this forum is about. It's ridiculous that someone like Ben is banned but there can be dozens and dozens of noobs using perfect grammar to tell us about their experience reinventing petrus or asking which 3x3 method is the fastest, and they're welcome here. Is there seriously anyone who would rather read someone who doesn't know what they're talking about write a thread proposing a 1LLL method that already exists as their idea than read something by Ben that has bad grammar but some actual content??? Because that's what the actions taken by the forum imply.

Preventing "spam" is pointless. Almost all the threads that aren't stickied die after days or weeks anyway. The very worst that Ben can do is add one extra page to a thread by posting some unneccesary comments. Big deal. It wastes almost none of anyone else's time, and it'll just be forgotten in a very short time. And all this is assuming that what Ben is saying is pointless, which I don't think it is. The people who should be banned are the legitimate spambots. And that's pretty much it. Hurry up and unban Ben's main account. He's been banned long enough to get the message anyway.

I'm really surprised at the amount of people expressing agreement with this. I never have felt that the moderators were not doing their job properly.
 
D

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If they were to ban someone based on grammar, then Antoine Faz Fan, Michael Womack, and my past self would have been permabanned by now.

From what I see at this point, spam/bad troll threads are being removed (and some of the users who replied to mess with the troll, were banned as well.


I do see the mods working, but some don't really take the responsibility as in what the COMMUNITY thinks of the rules.. This forum mainly went from a loose end fun fest to primarily discussion.... I notice that the mods want the forum to look professional and family friendly.

Look, people are going to argue and insult. As long as it doesn't get vulgar and it has a point, keep it.
 
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IRNjuggle28

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I'm really surprised at the amount of people expressing agreement with this. I never have felt that the moderators were not doing their job properly.

The entire point I was making is that they don't even have a job to do properly. It's a pointless job. It's not that they're doing it improperly, just that it's unneccesary.

I guess it really depends on what you want from the forum. Maybe the moderation guidelines should be more category based. I'd be fine with having these rules on constructive speedcubing, puzzle theory, and private forum. For the most part, they aren't neccesary elsewhere.
 
D

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I am assuming their job is to keep everything that is "worth discussing" up. The community is quickly spreading... It isn't just notable speedcubers anymore..
 

XTowncuber

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The entire point I was making is that they don't even have a job to do properly. It's a pointless job. It's not that they're doing it improperly, just that it's unneccesary.

I guess it really depends on what you want from the forum. Maybe the moderation guidelines should be more category based. I'd be fine with having these rules on constructive speedcubing, puzzle theory, and private forum. For the most part, they aren't neccesary elsewhere.
So...in all the rest of the forums people could post whatever they want just as fast as they can type it? You realize that that wouldn't go well, don't you?

As I originally suspected, an anarchist through and through.
 

IRNjuggle28

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So...in all the rest of the forums people could post whatever they want just as fast as they can type it? You realize that that wouldn't go well, don't you?

As I originally suspected, an anarchist through and through.

If anyone gets too ridiculous, then yes. They should be banned. I don't think most people need the rules in order to not cross the line.
 

Sa967St

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The key thing to keep in mind when posting is that Speedsolving.com is a family-friendly forum for the cubing community. The cubing community consists of many young people, and it's important that the forums are a safe place for them to post. This isn't Facebook or YouTube where you can say something offensive or harass someone and get away with it. It's important to us that users feel safe here. The Forum Rules are what they are for a reason. If you have concerns about specific Rules, feel free to address them.

I disagree. A closed thread usually just means the mods don't like what's going on, whether it's "constructive" or not. I can remember several times where I wanted to continue talking in a thread but it had been closed.
Did you ever report these threads to ask why there were closed? When we close threads, they're never because we just don't like them. If we don't like them, there's a good reason behind it, and it's not always obvious.

I can understand that, but it just makes things confusing sometimes, like when words such as id iot are in the filter. I think it should include fewer words, and if someone posts something really bad, you can just report it anyway.
When Brest became an Admin, he removed words like "idiot" from the filter. The purpose of the filter is to hide words that are vulgar, inappropriate, offensive and profane. If a word is hidden from the filter, you shouldn't be using them. If you think that there are words in filter that shouldn't be there, ask an Admin about it.

The profanity filter doesn't even work. It censors words like (remove the spaces in the middle) boas tful, and distrus tful, just because of a four letter sequence in the middle of it that's considered profane. Which is annoying.
This isn't even true. I don't recall whether it was like this in the past, but it certainly hasn't been recently.

boastful
distrustful

The entire point I was making is that they don't even have a job to do properly. It's a pointless job. It's not that they're doing it improperly, just that it's unneccesary.
It sounds like you don't know what a moderator's jobs actually are.
 

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Whilst I really appreciate the time and effort mods put into this forum, and by that I really do mean it, I think some stuff has gone way overboard.

Threads shouldn't be closed. As long as the title of the thread is appropriate and has an appropriate subject, the discussion should carry on. If there's people trolling or spamming, warn them or ban them. Do't close the whole thread so that the rest of us who has something to contribute can't post.

I still don't see why Ben was and still is banned. There was never a proper explanation and we lost one of our most regular contributing member. The stuff he has contributed far far outweight any annoyance he causes.

Thread merging are useful and the strict no-double-posting rule, whilst being really irritating at times, do have lots of benefit. This is where the mods have done a very good job imo. But sometimes posts are deleted. There might be a justification, there might be a really good reason, but if the post doesn't do any harm, why delete it? I can think of numerous cases where my posts(and other peoples) are just deleted. Other members also expressed their dissatisfaction, not on this forum but in private emails and messages(not PM on this forum). Some times the mods are far too strict and this cause quite a bit of pain. The line between spam and a post that dont contribute much, but still says something, is very blurred. There are many posts which is basically spam, like "wow you sub 15'd there!, gj!", which is ignored, but stuff like arguments are deleted, whole pages are sometime deleted, simply because they are arguments, and therefore off topic.

The filters are quite annoying but i dont mind them being there, although they don't stop childrens being exposed to offensive language at all.

I hope the forum can be slightly less stringent.
 

Sa967St

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I still don't see why Ben was and still is banned. There was never a proper explanation and we lost one of our most regular contributing member. The stuff he has contributed far far outweight any annoyance he causes.
If you were banned, would you want the exact reasons being public? No one needs to know the reasons behind Ben's ban, especially since he's just 17. FYI, It has nothing to do with the way he was typing.

There was a pastebin and a page of discussion, but everything mysteriously disappeared...
Yes, right after he was banned, there was a discussion in the Random Cubing Discussion thread, which I and another mod cleaned out. The posts were deleted because there was a lot of false information.

Threads shouldn't be closed. As long as the title of the thread is appropriate and has an appropriate subject, the discussion should carry on. If there's people trolling or spamming, warn them or ban them. Do't close the whole thread so that the rest of us who has something to contribute can't post.
Can you give examples? If you ever feel a thread was wrongly closed, just ask about it. Seriously, we're not evil.

There are many posts which is basically spam, like "wow you sub 15'd there!, gj!", which is ignored, but stuff like arguments are deleted, whole pages are sometime deleted, simply because they are arguments, and therefore off topic.
Spam posts differ depending on the thread and the subforum. Posts like "wow you sub 15'd there!, gj!" are fine in the video gallery.

When something isn't deleted, it doesn't mean it's not spam. We don't have the time to go through every single thread, and when things aren't reported they are often missed.
 

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If you were banned, would you want the exact reasons being public? No one needs to know the reasons behind Ben's ban, especially since he's just 17. FYI, It has nothing to do with the way he was typing.


Yes, right after he was banned, there was a discussion in the Random Cubing Discussion thread, which I and another mod cleaned out. The posts were deleted because there was a lot of false information.

Im sorry but if I was permabanned I would probably want people to know why. Of course, it depends on the circumstances and I respect that ben might have asked you to keep it secret. I personally never asked him. I feel that if its something he want us to know, he would tell us.

Interesting. I never mentioned his age. How does him being 17 have anything to do with this? Intrigued. But it's probably best if I don't find out.

Tbf sarah it was just a script from some random chatroom. I don't dislike you at all but I don't see why anyone would fake a chatroom history. Especially the person who provided the info and the link (who I probably shouldn't name) gained nothing from this. I do respect that the script isn't the whole story and it is probably more complicated than that.

Can you give examples? If you ever feel a thread was wrongly closed, just ask about it. Seriously, we're not evil.


Spam posts differ depending on the thread and the subforum. Posts like "wow you sub 15'd there!, gj!" are fine in the video gallery.

When something isn't deleted, it doesn't mean it's not spam. We don't have the time to go through every single thread, and when things aren't reported they are often missed.

Yeah thanks I'll ask the next time when I feel something is wrongly deleted.
 

Sa967St

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Im sorry but if I was permabanned I would probably want people to know why. Of course, it depends on the circumstances and I respect that ben might have asked you to keep it secret. I personally never asked him. I feel that if its something he want us to know, he would tell us.

Interesting. I never mentioned his age. How does him being 17 have anything to do with this? Intrigued. But it's probably best if I don't find out.

The short answer is that having something very negative about you public on the Internet can seriously hurt your reputation in real life.
 

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Did you ever report these threads to ask why there were closed?
Wait, what? I thought closed meant you guys had already dealt with it, and were one step short of deleting it completely, and definitely didn't want to see anything related to that thread pop up anymore. Are you sure you guys would be OK with a report like this?

When Brest became an Admin, he removed words like "idiot" from the filter. The purpose of the filter is to hide words that are vulgar, inappropriate, offensive and profane. If a word is hidden from the filter, you shouldn't be using them. If you think that there are words in filter that shouldn't be there, ask an Admin about it.
OK, it's good that he removed words like that. Anyway, I thought the official position was like your 3rd sentence (the filter is final, no discussion, do not use these words) as opposed to your 4th sentence which kinda contradicts it (if you think the filter should be changed, just let us know and we'll think about it). So I'm confused now, do you want input or not?

Some times the mods are far too strict and this cause quite a bit of pain. The line between spam and a post that dont contribute much, but still says something, is very blurred. There are many posts which is basically spam, like "wow you sub 15'd there!, gj!", which is ignored, but stuff like arguments are deleted, whole pages are sometime deleted, simply because they are arguments, and therefore off topic.
Yeah, I agree. As a non-moderator it's hard to tell what got deleted, and sometimes I come back to the thread and a ton of stuff is gone, including stuff I thought was useful. Sometimes the explanation is that the posts were off-topic, but topics can shift into other (sometimes more interesting) directions and this doesn't mean the offending part should be removed. I've also seen explanations like posts are not contributing, but in an argument, couldn't someone use that to justify removing anything they don't like?
 
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