Developing a better LL system

**AbstractAlg** · 05-24-2012

This sounds amazing. Can't wait for it. *_*
Idea is amazing, good luck!!

**Kirjava** · 05-25-2012

Originally Posted by Petro Leum

so would be sune/antisune and niklas /antiniklas (lol) as first alg be an option for methods like ZZ were teh edges are already oriented?

I might make a ZBLL version, but I don't really want to because this idea doesn't work as well if you're doing EOLS aswell.

**mullemeckmannen** · 05-31-2012

how´s it going Kirjava?

**Dacuba** · 05-31-2012

Originally Posted by mullemeckmannen

how´s it going Kirjava?

Be patient. Good stuff needs time.
He will bump the thread by himself when he is ready for more updates.

**Kirjava** · 06-07-2012

Wow that was a lot of work. Updates!

Sorry this took so long, the more cases you do, the harder it is to do more at once, since less cases are available to be covered by a single alg.

So I've organised all 4128 cases by algorithm. At the moment I've just got it organised loosely in a bunch of files, I'll convert this to a sexy HTML format for people to oogle at sometime soon.

That'll end up being the final product eventually. However, it still won't be very friendly initially, but will be somewhat learnable! A lot of work will still need to be done, but all the initial grind it out of the way - all that's rest is fun discovery :)

I need to do case reduction, find patterns and discover other shortcuts. Please help once I've posted the neat version if you have any idea what I'm talking about :)

I've found a few patterns and little quirks already, but it's kind of hard to spot with how the data is now. Once it looks pretty it should be a lot easier to improve :3 Just need to keep throwing man hours at the damn thing until it's playing nice >:D

**sa11297** · 06-07-2012

Originally Posted by Kirjava

Wow that was a lot of work. Updates!

Sorry this took so long, the more cases you do, the harder it is to do more at once, since less cases are available to be covered by a single alg.

So I've organised all 4128 cases by algorithm. At the moment I've just got it organised loosely in a bunch of files, I'll convert this to a sexy HTML format for people to oogle at sometime soon.

That'll end up being the final product eventually. However, it still won't be very friendly initially, but will be somewhat learnable! A lot of work will still need to be done, but all the initial grind it out of the way - all that's rest is fun discovery

I need to do case reduction, find patterns and discover other shortcuts. Please help once I've posted the neat version if you have any idea what I'm talking about

I've found a few patterns and little quirks already, but it's kind of hard to spot with how the data is now. Once it looks pretty it should be a lot easier to improve :3 Just need to keep throwing man hours at the damn thing until it's playing nice >

awesome, your work is much appreciated

**jeff081692** · 06-11-2012

So I started my feeble attempt at learning this and I wonder is the number of cases really 4128? For example I counted at least 26 cases that were actually PLL cases. Also When practicing recognition I noticed that image 464 and 553 are the same case just a different AUF which leads me to believe that more cases could be over counted.
example: case 464 solution is U Inv(Sune) Inv(Sune) and case 553 solution is U' Inv(Sune) Inv(Sune).

**Kirjava** · 06-21-2012

The site's starting to come together.

It's taking forever because there are thousands of cases. I've been writing little scripts and stuff to speed things up, but it's still a lot of grinding.

**cmowla** · 06-21-2012

Thom,

This is the first time I looked at this thread (sorry!). I have read all of it, and I have a question.

Maybe I missed something, but, by looking at the raw data table, you seem to have dozens of algorithms for each case. How are you (or anyone else) supposed to organize theses cases by algorithms if there is more than one alg listed for each case? I might be interested in helping, but I don't know where to start because of this.

Guess: Is it to choose the algorithm for each case so that we have the minimum number of subsets? If so, how are you separating subsets? I've read that you are gearing to have algorithms start with sune, antisune, etc. Is that your approach? If so, what is the "second best" starts to continue with after that? And after that?...

If I didn't guess right that time, is it based on speed (I am aware that you have chosen fast algs to generate all cases, but I am referring to when they are combined)? If so, how is anyone ever going to agree on this (since there are so many alg combinations for each case)?

Originally Posted by Noahaha

A lot of LL situations are just a 3-cycle of corners and a 3-cycle of edges. It would only be like 20 algs to give a lot of 2-alg 1LLLs.

EDIT: 12 edge cycles and 12 corner cycles, and not too bad algs either.

I don't know what the "actual" number is, but from the raw number of cases (with mathematics) for 3-cycles of edges and corners, if I did my calculations right, is 22.2% of the raw number of LL cases:

$\frac{\left( 8\times 3^{3} \right)\left( 8\times 2^{3} \right)}{\frac{1}{2}\left( 4! \right)\left[ 2^{3} \right]\left( 4! \right)\left[ 3^{3} \right]}=\frac{2}{9}.$ But this is all irrelevant to this thread anyway.