More Questions

[0l3n]

To all of you advocating going directly from a beginner's last layer to a 3 look last layer: How exactly do you expect this to be done? Do you expect to memorize all 21 PLLs, plus whatever remaining OLLs are required, all at once, before *any* solves can be done with this method? If so, I find that rather naive, so I can't imagine this is the case.

The method I outlined only requires that you learn 4 to 6 algs to get started, and by the time you have learned a total of 17 algs, you have a 4 look last layer. All the while you *can* solve the entire cube.

I feel like I must be missing something.

Brian.

Kind off what I was thinking.
It really isnt that easy learning all the PLL's from scratch, ive tried.

[Lofty]

Yeah Lofty, makes a lot of sense.

By the way, got a vid of some of your OH stuff? Your records look amazing and I'd like to see them :P

I have a youtube yes, LoftyCuber. My best average on there is 21.xx tho...

[Snipermtd24]

Sorry Lucas, I did get my notation wrong. Thanks for pointing it out.

And to Brian: I feel like I would be going backwards that way, learning new stuff that wouldn't really improve my time drastically, I just don't see the point. But if you want, you could explain it to me again.

[Lofty]

I wasn't saying learn useless stuff. Not that ELL is useless I would have learned it long ago if I cared about 2H cubing. I'm saying think about the cube some and why you are picking the method and alg sets you are picking.

[blgentry]

And to Brian: I feel like I would be going backwards that way, learning new stuff that wouldn't really improve my time drastically, I just don't see the point. But if you want, you could explain it to me again.

Assuming you are addressing me, you've got me confused. You said a few messages ago that you were going to go "straight to the 3 Look Last Layer". But now you're saying what I wrote is "new stuff that won't help my times".

Perhaps I wasn't clear because I spent so much time on the details. Here it is in a nutshell:

What I outlined will get you to a 3 LLL. Every single algorithm I talked about is part of the 3LLL. You can not omit any of them and still have a true 3LLL. What I outlined is simply a way of bootstrapping yourself into a method of solving that will allow you to learn the algs gradually. After you learn the first 6 algs (some of which you probably already know), you will *always* be able to solve the cube with that method. Then you can add algs, in any order you like, and get faster as you learn more of them.

I'm not sure how you would even attempt to learn a 3LLL "all at once". Are you planning on learning all 31 algs at once, and not solving the cube with those algs until you are done learning them? If so, you either have more mental capacity than I do, or you are going to be disappointed.

I'd be happy to clarify anything in my previous post if you are still interested.

Brian.

[Snipermtd24]

Ok, I'm gonna read back over your post, Blgentry. Thanks again.

Brian: Would you clarify which algorithms I should learn please?
List in some format like this:

Orient Edges:
Orient Corners:
Permute Corners:
Permute Edges:

If you would, I'd be most appreciative.

[blgentry]

Sniper,

Sure. It's actually all in my first posting, but I'm guessing you want me to type out the exact algs, as opposed to saying "Learn PLLs #1, 2, 3, and 4".

The first step is to learn the minimum algs that will allow you to solve the last layer, then you can build on those and reduce your number of looks. Here's what you need at the very minimum, to get you started in this method.

Note before I get started: In cube talk, the word "orient" means rotate. So orienting the edges means flipping them up so they all show the top color on top. The word "permute" means "move them around so they are in the right place and don't mess with their orientation in the process." So permuting the edges means moving them until the edge pieces are in the right spots.

Orient Edges:

For the backwards L: F U R U' R' F'
For the "line": F R U R' U' F'
You probably already know those.

For pictures of these, see this page and look at case 4b for the "backwards L" and case 4a for "the line":

http://www.cubestation.co.uk/cs2/ind...ge=3x3x3/3x3x3

Orient corners: While you should eventually learn all 7 cases, for now, all you need is the two algorithms that twist three corners at the same time.

Sune, or the clockwise corner twister: R U R' U R U2 R'
Anti-Sune or the anti-clockwise corner twister: R' U' R U' R' U2 R

These are cases #51 and #52 on Dan's cube station:

http://www.cubestation.co.uk/cs2/ind...ippedcorrectly

Note that by using these two algs you can solve *any* of the 7 cases by applying one or two of these algs in succession. It's a little difficult to express in a short sentence, but if you play with it, you'll find the right orientation of the top face that will allow only two of these algs to solve all 7 cases. I'd be happy to elaborate if you can't figure it out.

Permute Corners: You'll want to know the clockwise three corner cycle and the anticlockwise three corner cycle.

Clockwise cycle, PLL #4: (x) R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 l2 (x)
Anti-clockwise cycle, PLL #3: (x) R2 D2 R U R' D2 R U' R (x')
Those algs are both VERY fast with a little practice.

For pictures, again see Dan's cube station:

http://www.cubestation.co.uk/cs2/ind...pllcasecorners

Permute Edges: All you need to start is the clockwise three edge cycle and the anti-clockwise three edge cycle.

Clockwise cycle, PLL #1: (R' U R') (U' R' U' R') (U R U R2)
Anti-clockwise cycle, PLL #2: (R2 U' R' U') (R U R U) (R U' R)
Both of these are also VERY fast with practice.

There are pictures here, PLLs #1 and 2:

http://cubefreak.net/PLL.html

That is all you need to start. If you want to know how to progress from there, re-read my original post and if you need clarification, or specific recommendations for algs, just ask.

Brian.

[Snipermtd24]

Wow, thanks Brian.. you've been a lot of help, I appreciate it. I'll begin learning these tomorrow, along with improving my intuitive F2L (been working on that all day.)