[Help Thread] ZZ and ZB Discussion

Did anyone ever tried ZZ-d with phasing combined ?
Although it might be slow and cumbersum regarding the LS, it would leave one of the easiest LL ever.

Berkmann18 said:

Did anyone ever tried ZZ-d with phasing combined ?
Although it might be slow and cumbersum regarding the LS, it would leave one of the easiest LL ever.

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Yes, I thought of this a while ago and used to use it. I now think it's not very fast though since you have to do so much to influence LL during F2L; COLL-EPLL or OLL-PLL is faster imo.

Berkmann18 said:

Did anyone ever tried ZZ-d with phasing combined ?
Although it might be slow and cumbersum regarding the LS, it would leave one of the easiest LL ever.

Click to expand...

Even with Corners permutated and Edges phased there are still 28 cases left [ (7 corner patterns) times (solved + H + Z + Z) ] - maybe a learning step to full 2GLL

But how to do the "permute corners while finishing left block" step. Even with "infinite" time I don't find a logic how to fix cp.

oll+phase+sync said:

But how to do the "permute corners while finishing left block" step. Even with "infinite" time I don't find a logic how to fix cp.

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ZZ porky v1
ZZ porky v2

Chris Tran ZBLL talk hype!

AlexMaass said:

Chris Tran ZBLL talk hype!

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I'm hyped!

AlexMaass said:

Chris Tran ZBLL talk hype!

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Is there a video yet?

TDM said:

Yes, I thought of this a while ago and used to use it. I now think it's not very fast though since you have to do so much to influence LL during F2L; COLL-EPLL or OLL-PLL is faster imo.

Click to expand...

Yeah it's for sure slow but a good way to start on ZBLL subsets such as 2GLL and ZZLL.

Berkmann18 said:

Yeah it's for sure slow but a good way to start on ZBLL subsets such as 2GLL and ZZLL.

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True. I do think that it could be better to actually force the edges to not be phased though - a lot of the algs are much better.

Yeah, you could also phase only edge to force ZBLLs with U perms or solved edges (KhLL/CLL)

So, why don't we recognize ZBLL's as the OLL, and then the PLL?
i.e: R' Y-perm R

I notice it is a Ja(?) perm, and I have the U (?) OLL. Then I perform the algorithm that corresponds to that case, and it solves it. Why do we not recognize like this compared to the COLL followed by the edge cycle?

2180161 said:

So, why don't we recognize ZBLL's as the OLL, and then the PLL?
i.e: R' Y-perm R

I notice it is a Ja(?) perm, and I have the U (?) OLL. Then I perform the algorithm that corresponds to that case, and it solves it. Why do we not recognize like this compared to the COLL followed by the edge cycle?

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because that way is much more complicated. COLL recognition is super easy. just add edge cycle. having to recognize the PLL is super hard when the pieces arent oriented.

Not really.
I find it perfectly easy. I just need algs for it.

Also, how many algs are there per case on average? (excluding COLL, PLL, and pure OLL's)

2180161 said:

So, why don't we recognize ZBLL's as the OLL, and then the PLL?
i.e: R' Y-perm R

I notice it is a Ja(?) perm, and I have the U (?) OLL. Then I perform the algorithm that corresponds to that case, and it solves it. Why do we not recognize like this compared to the COLL followed by the edge cycle?

Click to expand...

It's just faster. Recognizing the COLL is pretty much as fast as OLL recog and once you get pretty good at it edges don't take much longer. Sitting there and tracking where pieces go to see the PLL takes some thought seeing blocks and patterns can become unconscious. I don't see

2180161 said:

Not really.
I find it perfectly easy. I just need algs for it.

Also, how many algs are there per case on average? (excluding COLL, PLL, and pure OLL's)

Click to expand...

setup R' U2 R U R' U R2 U' L' U R' U' L, recognize that PLL in a reasonable amount of time.

So recognition works by thinking (sort of) I have this COLL, and this is the edge cycle, so I have this alg. Why not memorize it as patterns rather than a COLL and an EPLL?

2180161 said:

So recognition works by thinking (sort of) I have this COLL, and this is the edge cycle, so I have this alg. Why not memorize it as patterns rather than a COLL and an EPLL?

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That is how I do it.

Okay, but why not memorize as patterns instead. BTW that PLL is a Ga (?) perm (not good with the names)

2180161 said:

So recognition works by thinking (sort of) I have this COLL, and this is the edge cycle, so I have this alg. Why not memorize it as patterns rather than a COLL and an EPLL?

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COLLs are patterns themselves. then you just incorporate the edge recog as a pattern. (couple different ways to do it, check out the slide on the zbll seminar).

A question not related to this conversation. Is full ZBLL worth it? I plan on learning it once I am done with COLL. (a little over halfway)

2180161 said:

Okay, but why not memorize as patterns instead. BTW that PLL is a Ga (?) perm (not good with the names)

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I use patterns to recognize edge cycles, COLL recognition is just as fast as OLL and is patterns. How long did it take you to see that PLL. I would be very surprised if you did it in under 2 seconds.