• Welcome to the Speedsolving.com, home of the web's largest puzzle community!
    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access to join discussions and access our other features.

    Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community of 40,000+ people from around the world today!

    If you are already a member, simply login to hide this message and begin participating in the community!

Magnets Discussion and Help thread

One Wheel

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
2,883
Location
Wisconsin
WCA
2016BAIR04
I'm trying to find a tool for placing magnets, and I'm wondering if anybody has seen something that will work. I think there needs to be a flat plastic (or other non-magnetic) sheath with a bump on it to keep the magnets in place, and a retractable ferrous core. Almost like one of those disposable plastic box cutters, but the end would have to be no more than about 3.8mm wide to fit into the pieces. I think with this tool I could probably place all the magnets in a 6x6 in something like 2 hours. I'm sure such a thing exists, but where do I look for it? I've done 3 magnetic 6x6s with a combination of a screwdriver, a utility knife, plastic picnic knives, and a pair of homemade wooden tweezers, and there's got to be a better way.
 

DMCubing

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
137
Location
Shreveport, LA
I magnetize mostly 3x3s, well, because they're cool and that's what I grew up with, and I've done 2x2s and 4x4s, but 5x5 is completely brand new to me. Is this pretty much the way folks are laying out the magnets in their 5x5s?IMG_5606.JPG
 

One Wheel

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
2,883
Location
Wisconsin
WCA
2016BAIR04
I magnetize mostly 3x3s, well, because they're cool and that's what I grew up with, and I've done 2x2s and 4x4s, but 5x5 is completely brand new to me. Is this pretty much the way folks are laying out the magnets in their 5x5s?View attachment 8472
I can't tell if that's showing 2 magnets in one half of a wing, but if it is that's unnecessary. The wing/midge magnets don't significantly affect the corner/wing magnets, so the relative polarity of the two sets doesn't matter. Just put one magnet in each midge half, so each half is identical, match one type of wing half to the midge, and match the other type to the corners.
 

One Wheel

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
2,883
Location
Wisconsin
WCA
2016BAIR04
I've done 2 5x5's so far and I've used the same configuration for both as in the attached pic ... They both have turned out quite well.

View attachment 8473

Edit: for each "line" the polarity travels in the same direction
That's exactly what I was trying to describe as far as placement. Do you think relative polarity of the two sets of magnets actually makes a difference?
 

DMCubing

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
137
Location
Shreveport, LA
I can't tell if that's showing 2 magnets in one half of a wing, but if it is that's unnecessary. The wing/midge magnets don't significantly affect the corner/wing magnets, so the relative polarity of the two sets doesn't matter. Just put one magnet in each midge half, so each half is identical, match one type of wing half to the midge, and match the other type to the corners.
I'm afraid I don't understand your terminology, "midges" and "wings". Which, specifically, are these cubie pieces? Thanks.

When I first sketched this out I noticed I had some redundancy which would have totaled to 144 magnets, but eliminated those magnets, giving me now a total of 96 magnets required. I'm guessing this is correct. Again, I'm completely new to 5x5.
 

One Wheel

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
2,883
Location
Wisconsin
WCA
2016BAIR04
I'm afraid I don't understand your terminology, "midges" and "wings". Which, specifically, are these cubie pieces? Thanks.

When I first sketched this out I noticed I had some redundancy which would have totaled to 144 magnets, but eliminated those magnets, giving me now a total of 96 magnets required. I'm guessing this is correct. Again, I'm completely new to 5x5.

96 magnets is correct. 144 is what I do for 6x6 and 7x7. The way I'm using the terms "midge" is the middle edge, "wing" is the piece between the midge and the corner.
 

Ghost Cuber

Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2016
Messages
854
Location
Ohio
WCA
2015WINT02
YouTube
Visit Channel
I'm afraid I don't understand your terminology, "midges" and "wings". Which, specifically, are these cubie pieces? Thanks.

When I first sketched this out I noticed I had some redundancy which would have totaled to 144 magnets, but eliminated those magnets, giving me now a total of 96 magnets required. I'm guessing this is correct. Again, I'm completely new to 5x5.
I don't quite understand the terminology either, but I think a wing is an outer edge and a midge is a center edge. However, I do know that 96 magnets is correct.
 

mitja

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
232
Location
Ljubljana, Slovenia
WCA
2016POPO02
I have one 5x5 with polarities not in line. So if you take Johnny's line on photo it goes N S S N . But all over the cube. It still works Ok. There is no repelling pieces, the "otside" magnets do not interact with "inside" magnets.
My bigger isue is, how to make qiyi 5x5 as good as 4x4. From design point of view 5x5 should be better but for now 4x4 magnetic Wuque is the best cube I ever had including 3x3's. I believe, if I would combine different spring and screw lenght it would get better, just never had time to try enough different combinations.
 

One Wheel

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
2,883
Location
Wisconsin
WCA
2016BAIR04
Can someone draw a picture like this but for how magnets are placed in a 6x6?
It's hard for me to upload a picture, but I'll take a shot at a diagram. This is if you look at each edge, from one corner to another:
3x3:
| +|- | |
| | -|+ |

4x4:
| +|- -|+ | |
| | +|- -|+ |

5x5:
| +|- | -|+ | |
| | +|- | -|+ |

6x6:
| +|- | +|- -|+ | |
| | +|- -|+ | -|+ |

7x7:
| +|- | -|+ | +|- | |
| | +|- | -|+ | -|+ |

Does that make any sense? I've never done a 2x2, or anything bigger than a 7x7, but if you can figure out these chicken scratches you should be able to magnetize any size cube. If you'll note, a 6x6 is basically a 4x4 and a 5x5 put together.
 

Mcube90

Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
3
One question about glueing the magnets:
I see some people put glue on the plastic and then place the magnet onto the glue and some people put the magnet against the plastic first and then put glue over it. Is one way better than the other? Because I find it easier to place the magnet first and then put glue over it. The magnet would also come closer to the plastic if there is no glue in between the plastic and the magnet, but the layer of glue is maybe too thin to make any difference anyway.
 

DMCubing

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
137
Location
Shreveport, LA
One question about glueing the magnets:
I see some people put glue on the plastic and then place the magnet onto the glue and some people put the magnet against the plastic first and then put glue over it. Is one way better than the other? Because I find it easier to place the magnet first and then put glue over it. The magnet would also come closer to the plastic if there is no glue in between the plastic and the magnet, but the layer of glue is maybe too thin to make any difference anyway.

I've tested this. The notion of assuming that enough glue will end up under the magnets by placing the glue last is false. The extremely thin layer of glue that you'll end up with won't be strong enough to handle the rigors of cubing. You're better off having a little glue under the magnet, then over the side and top of the magnet. The idea is to have the magnet encapsulated in glue. Some people are very hard on cubes, slamming them down onto hard surfaces. You need your magnets glued as best as possible.

It's also advisable to use a cotton swab and clean the factory lube off the interior of the cubie pieces with rubbing alcohol. This improves the bond. There's more lube inside the pieces than you'd think.

I often score (scratch and rough up) the areas where the magnets are placed after I've cleaned the lube off to improve the bond.

As carefully as I am with gluing, I've still had people loosen a magnet in one of my cubes.
 

Mcube90

Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
3
I've tested this. The notion of assuming that enough glue will end up under the magnets by placing the glue last is false. The extremely thin layer of glue that you'll end up with won't be strong enough to handle the rigors of cubing. You're better off having a little glue under the magnet, then over the side and top of the magnet. The idea is to have the magnet encapsulated in glue. Some people are very hard on cubes, slamming them down onto hard surfaces. You need your magnets glued as best as possible.

It's also advisable to use a cotton swab and clean the factory lube off the interior of the cubie pieces with rubbing alcohol. This improves the bond. There's more lube inside the pieces than you'd think.

I often score (scratch and rough up) the areas where the magnets are placed after I've cleaned the lube off to improve the bond.

As carefully as I am with gluing, I've still had people loosen a magnet in one of my cubes.

I never expected that any glue would end up under the magnet when putting the glue last. I thought it was enough that glue was covered around the magnet and not necessarily under the magnet. I magnetized both my 2x2 and 6x6 this way and after the glue dried I tried to rip out the magnet and it was pretty rock solid, it would require some immense force to dislocate the magnet at that point. But maybe it gets weaker by time. I used a lot of glue though so I was sure that the glue made contact to the plastic all around the magnet. But yeah, I guess it's safer and better to put the glue first and then place the magnet on top of it.
 

mitja

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
232
Location
Ljubljana, Slovenia
WCA
2016POPO02
I put glue always under and over the magnet. First, I place the two magnets, then slide them away, apply glue on the plastic, slide magnets back into correct position and put glue over them. It is much harder work, but I managed to speed up the procedure and never had a loose magnet. I always use slow drying gel ( Loctite with 60s drying time) superglue, that allows to place magnets. With this gel you better wait at least 3-4 hours before assembly.
 
Top